Through a series of profiles, Mister Emma considers the evolution of the position of women within the architectural profession. What are their past and current battles? How has their visibility increased in books, in the universities, on the reference sites, in international prizes?

A FEMICITY program.

Technical sheet of this architecture video clip
Journalist : Emma C. Dessouroux
Cameraman : Mister Emma

Editing : Emma C. Dessouroux / Cristina Dias
Direction : Emma C. Dessouroux
Production : Les Délires Productions

Translation : Strakermedia – Comtrans
Rereading : Serge Ryckoort / Emelire
Subtitles : Les Délires Productions

Speakers : Andrea Leers, Architect, Leers Weinzapfel Associates Architects (USA) – Jane Weinzapfel, Architect, Leers Weinzapfel Associates Architects – Francesca Perani, Architect, FrancescaPeraniEnterprise, Curator of Architette (Italy) – Imma Jansana, Architect, Jansana, De La Villa, De Paauw Arquitectes (Spain) – Eliana Perotti, Senior resercher, ETH Zürich (Switzerland) – Lori Brown, Architect, Co-founder of ArchiteXX, Professor at Syracuse University (USA) – Fluvia Fagotto, Architect, Archistudio associati (Italy) – Patricia Santos Pedrosa, President, Mulheres na Arquitectura (Portugal) – Stéphanie Bouysse-Mesnage, Architect, Architecture historian (France) – Sabine Leribaux, Architect, architectesassoc. (Belgium) – Caterina Franchini, Coordinator, MoMoWo (Italy) – Liz Walder, Architectural Historian (England)

English Subtitles

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Jane and I

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came to the beginning of our profession

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in what I would call
the second wave of feminism,

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after the first wave of suffragettes.

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That was the 1970s, there was a real
woman’s movement in the United States.

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And we worked very hard and long

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to advance

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the equality of women at that time,

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despite enormous differences.

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Then we went through a long period
of thinking it was fixed.

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Women’s rights are continuously fixed now.

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This is since Athens,

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when women were put back in their house,

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after centuries of being out in the world.

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We have to be rebels because

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we need to make the changes now.

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Everything is changing in the world
and there is more

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consciousness about the fact that women

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didn’t get enough visibility in the past.

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So it’s the perfect moment
to be together with men

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in promoting a more equal panorama

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in the architectural field.

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Can you explain again the evolution

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of female architects from the beginning,

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when you started, up to today?

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There has definitely been
an evolution that’s noteworthy

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even if there’s still a way to go,

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for example when I started studying,
in my class,

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which was composed
of roughly 100 students,

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there were only ten women
studying architecture.

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Today, it’s more like half and half.

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That’s already quite significant.

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And in our profession,

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women architects actually practicing,

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are quite numerous,

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I couldn’t give you numbers

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since I have not done

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specific research on the matter,

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but I do gather
that they participate enormously

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in the architectural profession.

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The history of women in architecture

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is not a long one,

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cause we know that women got late

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access to the university and…

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that was a first

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und maybe slow step.

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The second obstacle

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that the woman had to overcome,

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who wanted to become architect,

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is to assert oneself

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in this work environment

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and therefore

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until today we have

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a deficient historiography

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which does not represent the reality

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but provides only a mainstream narrative.

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Now, we continue to have

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the occasions,

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over many centuries,

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of having a woman’s voice

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and the…

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a situation of…

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a male dominance and power

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that has been for several centuries now.

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And so right now,

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yes, there is a great discussion

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of women’s rights.

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As you probably know, in the US,

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we had an equal rights amendment

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that we tried to have passed

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for our whole country.

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Many states ratified it, but not enough.

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And that was in the ’60s and early ’70s.

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We are now again at a place

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with the #MeToo,

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which has a…

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a great number of women
speaking out against

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sexual misconduct.

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I think culturally,

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people are listening,

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and it crosses so many disciplines,

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and I think that collective power
is amazing.

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And I think

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we have to seize this opportunity
within architecture

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to really force

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our discipline to have to respond.

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So I think the #MeToo movement
is an incredible opp…

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I mean, as sad as it is on one hand,

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it’s an opportunity
that we have to engage.

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Like absolutely.

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Well, actually, it’s been
quite a strong movement.,

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quite involved and engaging.

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As far as the architecture world
is concerned,

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some particular names,

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very disconcerting, in fact.

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But, in Italy, unfortunately still today,

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we’re not yet going
in the right direction.

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I admire immensely what Christine Murray,

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from England, has said,

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seeking to introduce guidelines
to denounce discrimination

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or inopportune attitudes

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which definitely exist in Italian firms

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since I myself can attest
having been subject to it once.

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It definitely happens, being
a mostly masculine environment.

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These unpleasant episodes
unfortunately do happen.

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Something has to be done.

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MeToo started something,

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and now we must progress,

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we must make more steps forward.

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Is it still important today
to fight for women’s rights?

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It’s not fixed yet?

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We represent more than 50%
of women in universities

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who are studying.
Architecture also, not only in Portugal.

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We are a significant part
of the labor market.

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We represent, as of now, in Portugal,

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45% of the number of people in
the Association of Portuguese Architects.

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But we are completely invisible

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as Project Coordinator,
responsible for the ateliers,

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as curator.

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As… etc., etc…

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So, what exists is something
very common regarding professions,

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liberal professions,
which were very masculine,

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that have gone through
a « feminization » process,

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but the base of the pyramid is feminine,

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but on the top of it,
it’s extremely masculine.

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Therefore, yes, answering
in a simpler way,

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we have many fights ahead of us.

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Professionally,
regarding architecture practices,

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in the universities as well,

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as we are still minority
as architecture teachers,

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while in theory and in history,
we are still

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in the disciplinary sectors

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which are more acceptable
according to the canon,

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much less in project classes,
to coordinate them,

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but also in the public institutions
and the government as well.

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It’s paramount that the fight–

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and when I talk about government,
I talk about political power–

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that this feminine fight for visibility,

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for their rights…

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not to be excluded for being women.

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And also, that they can shape
the kind of architect

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that they consider adequate.

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Because another issue inside architecture

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is that there is a system
which is very focused

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on an idea of « star architects »

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and this movie stars
of architecture are…

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very oppressive models,

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too castrating and delimiting
of what we believe we can be

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as architects.

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I believe there are several reasons
for this phenomenon.

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The reason often mentioned

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is the family engagement

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that women have

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and which overtake women
after they graduate from the university

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but probably there are some other factors.

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I think, for women it is harder

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to get access to the work environment.

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It is harder for them

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to present themselves in public.

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They often have a less
stronger financial background,

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therefore they often

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cannot open their own office

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and there is

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a traditional role model

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e.g. in relationships,

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in professional partnerships,

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that often the man

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is in charge of the public relations.

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I think the role of references
is important,

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showing that women
have actually become involved

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in practicing architectural trades,
that they have succeeded

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in those practices.

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Especially, for example,
in architecture schools,

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how can I say it…

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by having women teach about projects more,

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so we have more female references.

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I think you have to look at this issue

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from a much larger perspective.

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I think the little girl

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who ends up in a toy store

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in front of millions of Barbies,

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must put up a fight.

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I think the little girl

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who is expected to be

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sweet and submissive

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must put up a fight.

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I think the little girl

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who is forced to learn by heart,
the rule that

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the masculine has priority
over the feminine at school,

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and she receives bad grades

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if she doesn’t do it correctly

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to this rule,
if she doesn’t apply it correctly,

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I think this little girl
must put up a fight.

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The history of contemporary architecture

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remains prevalent,

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a male history.

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You see big names,

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great masters

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of architecture,

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but not women.

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Most of the biographers,
Wikipedians, were men

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and they put many biographies of men.

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So there are different movements

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in different ways, that will prove to you

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that women have been hidden.

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All women must fight

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because of this rule of male domination

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which causes small problems
on building sites,

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we are whistled on work sites,

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or well, they laugh at me
when I ask for a contract

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to be written in neutral gender.

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But, more important than that,

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this issue of male domination

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which is rooted in our societies

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for millenniums

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has led to violence against women.

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What did I read in France?

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Every three days in France, a woman dies
from being beaten by her spouse.

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It entails…
Malala, no access to education.

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It entails…

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rape, slavery etc.

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The goal is not to be

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depressed during this interview.

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But that’s still what we talk about.

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So the condition of the female architects,

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I think has little interest in this.

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It’s symptomatic
of something much heavier.

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We don’t have enough presence in history.

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We don’t have enough presence in theory.

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We don’t have enough presence in practice.

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There are plenty of women who seek

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architectural education,

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but there is an enormous dropout rate.

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So our mission is to provide

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support, networking,

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and opportunities through their voices
to be heard, to create a platform

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for the public to know what we are doing

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and why it’s important

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to have an architect participating
in building projects.

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When I see:

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« Seeking a director »

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in parentheses, or a female director,

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no one shouts discrimination.

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When I see an ad for an architect
where it is marked:

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« Only an architect can do
the same for you »,

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I think back to the little girl

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to whom we are imposing
this rule of male domination.

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People don’t want to see that
there is a form of domination

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leading to violence which I mentioned.

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I think the only interest
of this interview

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is to kindly invite

252
00:13:39,800 –> 00:13:40,960
men and women

253
00:13:41,320 –> 00:13:42,760
to look at this issue.

254
00:13:43,400 –> 00:13:45,280
My research for my PHD

255
00:13:45,360 –> 00:13:49,240
was about the Royal Gold Medal of
the Royal Institute of British Architects.

256
00:13:49,320 –> 00:13:52,600
And that is a medal
that was given to somebody

257
00:13:52,680 –> 00:13:54,920
who influences the field of architecture.

258
00:13:55,000 –> 00:13:58,960
It was started in 1848, the 19th Century,
and it’s still going on today.

259
00:13:59,040 –> 00:14:02,240
Before I came along,
there had not been any research

260
00:14:02,320 –> 00:14:03,880
on the medal at all.

261
00:14:03,960 –> 00:14:07,880
Another thing that came up
was that it’s called the Royal Gold Medal,

262
00:14:07,960 –> 00:14:10,160
but it’s not made out of gold anymore.

263
00:14:11,560 –> 00:14:14,520
Then I did a whole chapter in my PHD

264
00:14:14,600 –> 00:14:16,520
about statistics.

265
00:14:16,600 –> 00:14:21,120
From those statistics, I found out that
the majority of the winners are white,

266
00:14:21,200 –> 00:14:22,320
male,

267
00:14:22,400 –> 00:14:25,440
and they are working
in architectural practices,

268
00:14:25,520 –> 00:14:28,320
and they are in their 60’s really.

269
00:14:28,400 –> 00:14:31,760
So that lead me to do extra research

270
00:14:32,160 –> 00:14:35,280
on the opposing arguments, if you like.

271
00:14:35,360 –> 00:14:38,640
Within that is the women who
have not won the medal, and why not?

272
00:14:38,720 –> 00:14:41,000
The two extreme ends,

273
00:14:41,080 –> 00:14:45,120
so the youngest medalist is 45,
the oldest is 99.

274
00:14:45,200 –> 00:14:47,280
And to look at those extremes.

275
00:14:47,360 –> 00:14:50,720
And then also to look at non-white people,

276
00:14:50,800 –> 00:14:52,960
and why they haven’t won the medal.

277
00:14:53,040 –> 00:14:55,440
Until about 2016,

278
00:14:55,520 –> 00:14:58,560
there were no women winning
the RIBA medal on their own.

279
00:14:58,640 –> 00:14:59,920
They won it in partnership

280
00:15:00,000 –> 00:15:01,760
with their husband, but rules changed.

281
00:15:01,840 –> 00:15:04,760
So when the medal was established in 1848,

282
00:15:04,840 –> 00:15:06,160
it was for one person,

283
00:15:06,240 –> 00:15:10,000
an individual influencing architecture.
They could be an architect.

284
00:15:10,080 –> 00:15:14,520
83% are architects, the rest are writers,
journalists, engineers, etc.

285
00:15:14,600 –> 00:15:18,440
And in 1966, they changed the rules,

286
00:15:18,520 –> 00:15:21,000
so that it can be
an architectural partnership.

287
00:15:21,080 –> 00:15:24,040
The first partnership that won
was Powell and Moya,

288
00:15:24,120 –> 00:15:26,880
who were modernist architects
working in London.

289
00:15:26,960 –> 00:15:31,960
Then the first partnership that included
a woman, was Ray and Charles Eames.

290
00:15:33,240 –> 00:15:36,600
And for nowadays,
have things changed or not?

291
00:15:36,680 –> 00:15:39,400
Yes, because Zaha Hadid
was the first woman

292
00:15:39,480 –> 00:15:42,480
to win the RIBA gold medal
in her own right

293
00:15:42,760 –> 00:15:44,480
in 2016.

294
00:15:44,560 –> 00:15:47,440
So that obviously changed
the balance of the statistics.

295
00:15:47,520 –> 00:15:50,280
From working just
on the gold medal of the RIBA,

296
00:15:50,360 –> 00:15:52,920
I took it upon myself
to look at the statistics

297
00:15:53,000 –> 00:15:55,640
for the top five prizes
in the world for architecture.

298
00:15:55,720 –> 00:15:56,880
This is for individuals.

299
00:15:56,960 –> 00:16:00,840
So that’s the RIBA,
American Institute of Architects, the AIA,

300
00:16:00,920 –> 00:16:05,320
the UIA, which is
the European Institute of Architects,

301
00:16:05,400 –> 00:16:06,880
the Pritzker Prize,

302
00:16:06,960 –> 00:16:09,600
and the Praemium Imperiale,
which is from Japan.

303
00:16:09,680 –> 00:16:12,680
And so obviously that widened
my field of information,

304
00:16:12,760 –> 00:16:16,760
and I found that Zaha Hadid
had also won the Pritzker Prize,

305
00:16:16,840 –> 00:16:18,920
and she had also won
the Praemium Imperiale.

306
00:16:19,000 –> 00:16:22,840
Another architectural partnership
has won the Pritzker Prize,

307
00:16:22,920 –> 00:16:26,160
and then the AIA gold medal was won

308
00:16:26,240 –> 00:16:28,800
by a woman in 2014

309
00:16:28,880 –> 00:16:33,640
and also by Venturi and Scott Brown,
a woman and man partnership,

310
00:16:33,720 –> 00:16:35,880
in 2016.

311
00:16:46,200 –> 00:16:50,280
What my students,
women and men, answer in class

312
00:16:50,360 –> 00:16:55,040
when I ask them if they know
any woman who is an architect,

313
00:16:55,120 –> 00:16:59,600
their answers are very discouraging
and depressive

314
00:16:59,960 –> 00:17:02,520
because, eventually,

315
00:17:03,560 –> 00:17:06,440
they refer to the Brazilian Lina Bo Bardi

316
00:17:06,520 –> 00:17:08,320
or Zaha Hadid.

317
00:17:08,720 –> 00:17:12,280
I would say Zaha Hadid,
eventually, because she is dead.

318
00:17:12,880 –> 00:17:17,080
And when she died,
she had an extra visibility.

319
00:17:17,600 –> 00:17:22,480
And Lina Bo Bardi because
there are many Brazilian students

320
00:17:22,920 –> 00:17:27,160
and therefore, they bring
a certain architectonic culture…

321
00:17:28,880 –> 00:17:30,160
I would say, maybe,

322
00:17:30,960 –> 00:17:33,200
more mature and, therefore, more conscious

323
00:17:33,280 –> 00:17:35,760
about the character Lina Bo Bardi was.

324
00:17:36,400 –> 00:17:38,760
But… that’s it.

325
00:17:39,480 –> 00:17:44,080
This is the most feedback we can get

326
00:17:44,160 –> 00:17:47,200
from the students, men
and women, which means that,

327
00:17:48,160 –> 00:17:51,720
in the architectural imaginary,

328
00:17:52,480 –> 00:17:56,320
of who enters university to become
an architect, men and women,

329
00:17:58,280 –> 00:18:00,400
the female architects are not there.

330
00:18:00,480 –> 00:18:02,120
In our university

331
00:18:02,200 –> 00:18:04,640
and the majority of universities

332
00:18:04,720 –> 00:18:07,320
and architectural courses,

333
00:18:07,400 –> 00:18:10,640
there are no gender courses.

334
00:18:11,080 –> 00:18:14,400
I went to school in the late ’80s
and early ’90s.

335
00:18:14,480 –> 00:18:18,080
I often was the only female student
in my design studios.

336
00:18:18,160 –> 00:18:19,160
And…

337
00:18:20,200 –> 00:18:21,560
I was in a technical school.

338
00:18:21,640 –> 00:18:25,880
So I didn’t necessarily think of that
as being that unusual,

339
00:18:25,960 –> 00:18:28,160
not to have that many female students.

340
00:18:28,240 –> 00:18:30,160
And then I went into grad school

341
00:18:30,240 –> 00:18:31,640
and it was 50-50.

342
00:18:31,720 –> 00:18:33,760
And they made a big deal, saying:

343
00:18:33,840 –> 00:18:38,040
« You are the first class where we have
equal representation of both genders. »

344
00:18:38,880 –> 00:18:40,680
So that started me thinking:

345
00:18:40,760 –> 00:18:42,560
« I guess this is clearly an issue. »

346
00:18:42,640 –> 00:18:44,440
And once I got into practice,

347
00:18:44,520 –> 00:18:49,000
in New York city, it became very evident
that women weren’t having

348
00:18:49,080 –> 00:18:51,480
the same leadership potential
or opportunities

349
00:18:51,560 –> 00:18:53,680
as my male colleagues.

350
00:18:53,760 –> 00:18:57,880
But also the senior colleagues
were almost all men.

351
00:18:58,280 –> 00:19:00,960
So that became a starting point for me,

352
00:19:01,040 –> 00:19:05,520
to begin to look closely at what has been
the history of women in architecture.

353
00:19:05,600 –> 00:19:07,720
And looking back towards the ’70s,

354
00:19:07,800 –> 00:19:10,920
and starting to understand that there
had been these movements of women

355
00:19:11,000 –> 00:19:12,800
in the US and abroad,

356
00:19:12,880 –> 00:19:17,040
trying to raise awareness,
have more voice, to get paid equally.

357
00:19:17,120 –> 00:19:18,360
So these…

358
00:19:18,720 –> 00:19:21,280
So there are decades
where this has happened,

359
00:19:21,360 –> 00:19:24,280
but we’re clearly at a moment
where there is

360
00:19:24,360 –> 00:19:26,880
an enormous global awareness

361
00:19:26,960 –> 00:19:29,160
and energy around these issues.

362
00:19:29,240 –> 00:19:30,120
So I think…

363
00:19:30,200 –> 00:19:32,440
I don’t know if it’s good
or bad to say cyclical,

364
00:19:32,520 –> 00:19:37,120
but we’re definitely in a very energized
moment in history.

365
00:19:37,200 –> 00:19:39,240
That seems,

366
00:19:39,320 –> 00:19:42,360
at least on paper, different
than the ones that have come before.

367
00:19:42,440 –> 00:19:43,960
I don’t know if it’s true or not,

368
00:19:44,040 –> 00:19:48,400
but I think the global reach is
one of the things that’s so powerful.

369
00:19:48,480 –> 00:19:50,320
And the potential of us working together

370
00:19:50,400 –> 00:19:55,560
across our own countries
has so much potential.

371
00:19:56,680 –> 00:19:59,080
As teachers, men or women,

372
00:20:00,640 –> 00:20:04,320
as activists, it is paramount to amplify,

373
00:20:05,440 –> 00:20:08,640
as much as possible, the models.

374
00:20:09,000 –> 00:20:12,320
Because the absurd reduction of this model

375
00:20:12,600 –> 00:20:15,480
of star architect, white,

376
00:20:15,960 –> 00:20:18,320
rich, man,

377
00:20:19,280 –> 00:20:20,600
occidental,

378
00:20:21,280 –> 00:20:23,720
leaves out a great range

379
00:20:25,200 –> 00:20:29,040
of diversity and possibilities
to be an architect, men or women.

380
00:20:29,120 –> 00:20:33,000
I think there’s cultural, social,
political structures

381
00:20:33,080 –> 00:20:38,840
that are so deeply embedded
in our discipline.

382
00:20:38,920 –> 00:20:42,600
I think part of it’s the discipline,
part of it’s societal, that…

383
00:20:43,160 –> 00:20:45,720
I mean, clearly other disciplines
have done a better job

384
00:20:45,800 –> 00:20:48,840
of trying to create more parity
between the genders.

385
00:20:48,920 –> 00:20:51,480
But architecture has been so recalcitrant

386
00:20:51,560 –> 00:20:54,760
in not wanting to address it.

387
00:20:54,840 –> 00:20:57,160
So I don’t think… it’s not women,

388
00:20:57,240 –> 00:20:58,920
and I hate when people say:

389
00:20:59,000 –> 00:21:00,760
« Oh, you’re not trying enough, » or,

390
00:21:00,840 –> 00:21:04,120
« You’re not marketing yourself enough. »

391
00:21:04,440 –> 00:21:07,000
No, there’s institutional problems,

392
00:21:07,080 –> 00:21:10,560
structures that have made it very…

393
00:21:10,880 –> 00:21:12,960
made it easier for men, than for women.

394
00:21:13,040 –> 00:21:17,000
Until we have more women
in upper management, upper leadership,

395
00:21:17,080 –> 00:21:20,840
directing schools at a significant level,

396
00:21:21,760 –> 00:21:23,960
on juries for awards,

397
00:21:24,440 –> 00:21:25,680
things are not going to change.

398
00:21:25,760 –> 00:21:29,320
From the bottom-up, I think it’s both
a bottom-up and a top-down

399
00:21:29,400 –> 00:21:30,520
and…

400
00:21:33,040 –> 00:21:36,240
the bottom up is the thing
that’s going to force the change,

401
00:21:36,320 –> 00:21:37,640
because clearly…

402
00:21:37,720 –> 00:21:41,160
I think… It’s been over 100 years,

403
00:21:41,240 –> 00:21:45,600
at least in the United States,
where women have made progress,

404
00:21:45,680 –> 00:21:47,920
but it’s been glacially slow.

405
00:21:48,000 –> 00:21:50,960
So, it’s the structures
that have to change,

406
00:21:51,040 –> 00:21:55,120
and the attitudes of those in power
that have to evolve,

407
00:21:55,440 –> 00:21:57,720
so that there is more parity.

408
00:21:57,800 –> 00:22:01,840
So there is parity, not more parity,
but parity between the genders.

409
00:22:01,920 –> 00:22:05,880
OK, now we know it and we can all
push in the same direction.

410
00:22:05,960 –> 00:22:08,680
And when somebody…

411
00:22:08,760 –> 00:22:13,560
People say that women
don’t put themselves forward enough.

412
00:22:14,080 –> 00:22:17,680
Well the problem is a timing problem,

413
00:22:17,760 –> 00:22:20,560
if you have to deal with family,
with the work environment.

414
00:22:20,640 –> 00:22:23,160
You are an architect, a feminist,

415
00:22:23,240 –> 00:22:26,720
and a mother too.
Is the role of mother important?

416
00:22:27,960 –> 00:22:30,880
I believe that the state

417
00:22:31,600 –> 00:22:34,560
of maternity is just another state,

418
00:22:34,640 –> 00:22:38,560
added to become more complex,

419
00:22:39,960 –> 00:22:43,800
richer, sometimes, harder,
the role of being a woman.

420
00:22:46,640 –> 00:22:49,520
It doesn’t give me more nor less,

421
00:22:51,200 –> 00:22:55,640
but it brings me an extra perception,

422
00:22:56,600 –> 00:23:00,920
including issues of inequalities.

423
00:23:01,560 –> 00:23:05,800
Is it still hard today to be both
a mother and an architect?

424
00:23:05,880 –> 00:23:09,280
Currently I am not working
as an architect…

425
00:23:10,840 –> 00:23:12,520
as a liberal professional.

426
00:23:14,800 –> 00:23:16,000
This means that…

427
00:23:18,000 –> 00:23:20,280
my perception…

428
00:23:20,600 –> 00:23:23,200
according to Portuguese data,

429
00:23:23,480 –> 00:23:29,800
is that there is a true abandonment
of women in liberal professions,

430
00:23:30,480 –> 00:23:33,600
from architecture practice,

431
00:23:34,200 –> 00:23:40,120
when there comes the moment
to choose maternity and family.

432
00:23:48,280 –> 00:23:53,080
Do you have a message
for the viewers of this documentary?

433
00:23:53,160 –> 00:23:54,800
We’re not alone.

434
00:23:55,240 –> 00:23:56,840
We’re many.

435
00:23:57,960 –> 00:24:02,000
We’re facing an important moment
to become aware

436
00:24:03,040 –> 00:24:07,440
of inequalities,
of the invisibility they put us in.

437
00:24:07,840 –> 00:24:08,840
And…

438
00:24:10,480 –> 00:24:14,240
I believe this is a time of change,

439
00:24:15,120 –> 00:24:17,960
but this change isn’t offered to us,

440
00:24:18,400 –> 00:24:21,640
it’s a change which is paramount
to fight for,

441
00:24:21,720 –> 00:24:25,840
to keep fighting and,
eventually, to intensify our fight

442
00:24:25,920 –> 00:24:30,040
for the right to be the architects
we want to be.

French Subtitles

1
00:00:03,560 –> 00:00:04,920
Jane et moi

2
00:00:05,000 –> 00:00:07,320
avons rejoint cette profession

3
00:00:07,400 –> 00:00:10,400
au moment de ce que j’appellerais
la deuxième vague féministe,

4
00:00:10,480 –> 00:00:12,760
après la première vague des suffragettes.

5
00:00:12,840 –> 00:00:17,680
C’étaient les années 70,
le mouvement des femmes aux États-Unis.

6
00:00:17,760 –> 00:00:19,720
On a beaucoup travaillé

7
00:00:19,800 –> 00:00:21,960
pour faire progresser

8
00:00:22,040 –> 00:00:25,480
les questions d’égalité,

9
00:00:25,560 –> 00:00:27,800
malgré d’énormes différences.

10
00:00:28,280 –> 00:00:32,120
Puis pendant une longue période,
on a cru que le problème était résolu.

11
00:00:32,200 –> 00:00:36,880
Les droits des femmes sont
constamment considérés comme sauvés.

12
00:00:37,480 –> 00:00:40,240
C’est ainsi depuis l’Antiquité,

13
00:00:40,320 –> 00:00:43,560
quand les femmes
ont été ramenées chez elles,

14
00:00:43,640 –> 00:00:48,240
après des siècles
à avoir pris part au monde.

15
00:00:48,320 –> 00:00:52,320
On doit se rebeller car on doit

16
00:00:52,400 –> 00:00:53,920
créer le changement.

17
00:00:54,000 –> 00:00:57,320
Tout change dans le monde
et il y a une plus grande

18
00:00:57,400 –> 00:01:00,640
prise de conscience concernant les femmes

19
00:01:00,720 –> 00:01:03,000
et leur manque de visibilité
jusqu’à maintenant.

20
00:01:03,080 –> 00:01:05,600
C’est le moment parfait

21
00:01:05,680 –> 00:01:07,760
pour qu’on s’unisse ensemble,
avec les hommes,

22
00:01:07,840 –> 00:01:12,400
afin de promouvoir
un panorama plus paritaire

23
00:01:12,480 –> 00:01:13,640
dans le milieu de l’architecture.

24
00:01:13,720 –> 00:01:18,640
(FEMMES) ARCHITECTES

25
00:01:18,720 –> 00:01:21,320
Est-ce que vous pouvez
réexpliquer l’évolution

26
00:01:21,400 –> 00:01:24,520
de la femme architecte depuis le début

27
00:01:24,600 –> 00:01:26,720
où vous avez commencé, à nos jours?

28
00:01:26,800 –> 00:01:31,200
Il y a eu une évolution notable

29
00:01:31,280 –> 00:01:33,360
même s’il reste du chemin à parcourir,

30
00:01:34,800 –> 00:01:39,280
par exemple quand j’ai commencé
à étudier, dans ma classe,

31
00:01:39,360 –> 00:01:42,280
où il y avait environ 100 élèves,

32
00:01:42,360 –> 00:01:46,200
il n’y avait que dix femmes
étudiant l’architecture.

33
00:01:46,280 –> 00:01:48,520
Aujourd’hui, on s’approche de la parité.

34
00:01:48,600 –> 00:01:50,640
C’est déjà significatif.

35
00:01:50,720 –> 00:01:52,320
Et dans notre profession,

36
00:01:52,400 –> 00:01:55,200
les femmes architectes qui travaillent

37
00:01:55,280 –> 00:01:56,560
sont plutôt nombreuses,

38
00:01:57,240 –> 00:01:58,680
je ne pourrais pas donner de chiffres

39
00:01:58,760 –> 00:02:00,400
comme je n’ai pas fait

40
00:02:00,480 –> 00:02:02,640
de recherche spécifique sur le sujet,

41
00:02:02,720 –> 00:02:07,320
mais je note
qu’elles participent énormément

42
00:02:07,400 –> 00:02:09,120
à la profession d’architecte.

43
00:02:09,200 –> 00:02:12,120
L’histoire des femmes en architecture

44
00:02:12,200 –> 00:02:14,120
n’est pas très longue,

45
00:02:14,200 –> 00:02:17,000
car nous savons que les femmes ont eu

46
00:02:17,080 –> 00:02:21,960
un accès tardif à l’université et…

47
00:02:22,040 –> 00:02:26,400
c’était une première et,
sans doute, lente étape.

48
00:02:26,480 –> 00:02:29,120
Le second obstacle

49
00:02:29,200 –> 00:02:30,800
que les femmes devaient surpasser,

50
00:02:30,880 –> 00:02:32,920
si elles voulaient être architecte,

51
00:02:33,000 –> 00:02:37,320
était de s’affirmer

52
00:02:37,400 –> 00:02:38,920
dans le milieu du travail,

53
00:02:39,000 –> 00:02:40,560
ainsi,

54
00:02:40,640 –> 00:02:43,360
jusqu’à maintenant, nous avons

55
00:02:43,440 –> 00:02:47,080
une historiographie déficiente

56
00:02:47,160 –> 00:02:50,600
qui ne représente pas la réalité

57
00:02:50,680 –> 00:02:55,800
mais fournit uniquement
un récit grand public.

58
00:03:06,320 –> 00:03:09,040
Encore maintenant, nous avons

59
00:03:09,520 –> 00:03:10,720
l’opportunité

60
00:03:10,800 –> 00:03:12,880
depuis des siècles

61
00:03:12,960 –> 00:03:16,040
que les femmes aient voix au chapitre

62
00:03:16,120 –> 00:03:18,240
et la…

63
00:03:18,320 –> 00:03:22,680
une situation d’une…

64
00:03:23,840 –> 00:03:28,160
d’une domination masculine pour le pouvoir

65
00:03:28,480 –> 00:03:31,920
qui perdure depuis plusieurs siècles.

66
00:03:32,000 –> 00:03:34,000
Maintenant,

67
00:03:34,080 –> 00:03:37,440
il y a une grande discussion

68
00:03:37,960 –> 00:03:39,720
concernant les droits des femmes.

69
00:03:39,800 –> 00:03:43,120
Vous le savez peut-être, aux États-Unis,

70
00:03:43,680 –> 00:03:46,440
nous avons un amendement
pour l’égalité des droits

71
00:03:46,840 –> 00:03:49,880
que nous avons essayé

72
00:03:49,960 –> 00:03:52,160
d’appliquer pour l’ensemble du pays.

73
00:03:52,560 –> 00:03:55,520
De nombreux États l’ont ratifié,
mais pas suffisamment.

74
00:03:55,600 –> 00:03:58,960
C’était dans les années 60
et début des années 70.

75
00:03:59,040 –> 00:04:01,840
Nous nous retrouvons de nouveau
à une période

76
00:04:02,200 –> 00:04:03,800
avec #MeToo

77
00:04:03,880 –> 00:04:08,600
qui a permis…

78
00:04:08,680 –> 00:04:12,280
à un grand nombre de femmes
de prendre la parole contre

79
00:04:12,360 –> 00:04:13,960
les comportements sexuels abusifs.

80
00:04:14,040 –> 00:04:16,680
Je pense que culturellement

81
00:04:16,760 –> 00:04:18,200
les gens écoutent

82
00:04:18,280 –> 00:04:21,240
et ça concerne tellement de disciplines,

83
00:04:21,320 –> 00:04:24,800
et je crois
que ce pouvoir collectif est incroyable.

84
00:04:24,880 –> 00:04:26,200
Et je crois

85
00:04:26,280 –> 00:04:29,840
que l’on doit saisir cette opportunité
dans le milieu de l’architecture

86
00:04:29,920 –> 00:04:35,680
pour forcer notre discipline à agir.

87
00:04:35,760 –> 00:04:38,800
Je pense que le mouvement #MeToo…,

88
00:04:38,880 –> 00:04:40,800
aussi regrettable que cela puisse être,

89
00:04:41,160 –> 00:04:44,400
est une opportunité que l’on doit saisir.

90
00:04:44,480 –> 00:04:45,720
Indiscutablement.

91
00:04:46,280 –> 00:04:50,040
Ça a été un mouvement important,

92
00:04:50,120 –> 00:04:52,560
impliquant et engageant.

93
00:04:52,640 –> 00:04:55,440
Concernant le monde de l’architecture,

94
00:04:55,520 –> 00:04:57,520
il y a quelques noms,

95
00:04:57,920 –> 00:04:59,840
mais c’est très déconcertant.

96
00:04:59,920 –> 00:05:03,720
Mais, en Italie, malheureusement
encore aujourd’hui,

97
00:05:03,800 –> 00:05:06,640
on ne va pas encore
dans la bonne direction.

98
00:05:06,720 –> 00:05:09,800
J’admire énormément
ce que Christine Murray,

99
00:05:09,880 –> 00:05:10,880
en Angleterre, a dit,

100
00:05:10,960 –> 00:05:15,480
en cherchant à introduire des principes
pour dénoncer la discrimination

101
00:05:15,560 –> 00:05:17,960
ou les attitudes inopportunes

102
00:05:18,040 –> 00:05:20,000
qui existent
dans les entreprises italiennes

103
00:05:20,080 –> 00:05:25,080
et je peux moi-même témoigner
en avoir été victime.

104
00:05:25,160 –> 00:05:28,080
Ça a lieu, étant donné la domination
masculine de cet environnement.

105
00:05:28,160 –> 00:05:32,320
Les moments déplaisants
arrivent malheureusement.

106
00:05:32,400 –> 00:05:33,720
Quelque chose doit être fait.

107
00:05:33,800 –> 00:05:35,560
MeToo a démarré quelque chose,

108
00:05:35,640 –> 00:05:37,240
et maintenant on doit progresser,

109
00:05:37,320 –> 00:05:39,240
on doit avancer davantage.

110
00:05:39,320 –> 00:05:43,320
C’est toujours important de nos jours
de se battre pour les droits des femmes?

111
00:05:43,400 –> 00:05:44,360
C’est pas encore fixé ça?

112
00:05:44,440 –> 00:05:49,880
Nous sommes plus de 50 % de femmes
qui étudient dans les universités.

113
00:05:49,960 –> 00:05:54,760
En architecture aussi,
et pas seulement au Portugal.

114
00:05:55,320 –> 00:06:00,080
Nous sommes une part significative
du marché du travail.

115
00:06:01,960 –> 00:06:04,640
On représente actuellement au Portugal

116
00:06:04,720 –> 00:06:10,280
45 % des membres de l’Association
des Architectes du Portugal.

117
00:06:11,280 –> 00:06:15,080
Mais nous sommes complètement invisibles

118
00:06:15,160 –> 00:06:21,080
en tant que coordinatrices de projet,
responsables des ateliers,

119
00:06:21,160 –> 00:06:23,600
en tant que conservatrices.

120
00:06:23,680 –> 00:06:26,280
En tant que… etc, etc.

121
00:06:26,360 –> 00:06:32,640
Ce qui existe est très commun
dans les professions

122
00:06:34,640 –> 00:06:38,320
libérales qui étaient très masculines,

123
00:06:38,680 –> 00:06:41,400
qui ont subi un processus
de « féminisation »,

124
00:06:42,000 –> 00:06:45,840
mais la base de la pyramide est féminine,

125
00:06:45,920 –> 00:06:50,040
et en haut, c’est largement masculin.

126
00:06:50,680 –> 00:06:56,000
Ainsi, oui, pour répondre simplement,

127
00:06:56,360 –> 00:06:58,880
il nous reste beaucoup de combats.

128
00:06:59,280 –> 00:07:02,200
Professionnellement,
concernant la pratique de l’architecture,

129
00:07:02,280 –> 00:07:04,640
dans les universités aussi,

130
00:07:04,720 –> 00:07:10,480
car nous sommes encore une minorité
en tant que professeurs d’architecture,

131
00:07:10,960 –> 00:07:16,720
alors qu’en théorie et en histoire,
nous sommes encore

132
00:07:17,760 –> 00:07:19,640
dans les milieux disciplinaires,

133
00:07:22,160 –> 00:07:26,080
qui sont plus acceptables selon Karam,

134
00:07:26,520 –> 00:07:31,960
bien moins dans les projets
de classes, pour les coordonner,

135
00:07:33,320 –> 00:07:36,280
mais aussi dans les institutions publiques
et au gouvernement.

136
00:07:36,800 –> 00:07:41,000
Il est primordial que le combat…

137
00:07:41,480 –> 00:07:44,080
et en parlant du gouvernement,
je parle de pouvoir politique…

138
00:07:44,160 –> 00:07:47,720
que ce combat des femmes
pour la visibilité,

139
00:07:48,240 –> 00:07:49,840
pour leurs droits…

140
00:07:52,000 –> 00:07:54,560
ne les exclue pas
parce qu’elles sont des femmes.

141
00:07:55,360 –> 00:07:59,600
Et aussi, qu’elles peuvent façonner
le type d’architecte

142
00:07:59,680 –> 00:08:01,920
qu’elles considèrent adéquat.

143
00:08:02,560 –> 00:08:05,760
Car un autre problème
au sein de l’architecture

144
00:08:06,040 –> 00:08:09,120
vient du fait qu’il y a un système
très centré

145
00:08:10,000 –> 00:08:12,080
sur une idée « d’architectes stars »

146
00:08:12,560 –> 00:08:16,960
et ces stars de l’architecture sont…

147
00:08:18,360 –> 00:08:20,360
des modèles très oppressifs,

148
00:08:21,200 –> 00:08:26,680
contraignant et délimitant
ce que nous croyons pouvoir être

149
00:08:26,760 –> 00:08:28,200
en tant qu’architectes.

150
00:08:28,280 –> 00:08:32,760
Je crois qu’il y a plusieurs raisons
expliquant ce phénomène.

151
00:08:32,840 –> 00:08:34,760
La raison généralement mentionnée

152
00:08:34,840 –> 00:08:36,760
est l’engagement familial

153
00:08:36,840 –> 00:08:37,960
que les femmes ont

154
00:08:38,040 –> 00:08:41,960
et qui rattrape les femmes
après l’université,

155
00:08:42,040 –> 00:08:46,360
mais il y a probablement
d’autres facteurs.

156
00:08:46,440 –> 00:08:48,360
Je crois que pour les femmes,
c’est difficile

157
00:08:48,440 –> 00:08:53,680
d’accéder au milieu du travail.

158
00:08:53,760 –> 00:08:55,680
C’est plus difficile pour elles

159
00:08:55,760 –> 00:08:58,600
de se présenter en public.

160
00:08:58,680 –> 00:09:03,760
Elles ont généralement
un soutien financier moins solide.

161
00:09:03,840 –> 00:09:05,760
Ainsi souvent,

162
00:09:05,840 –> 00:09:09,280
elles ne peuvent pas ouvrir
leur propre bureau

163
00:09:09,360 –> 00:09:12,520
et il y a

164
00:09:12,600 –> 00:09:16,040
un modèle à suivre traditionnel

165
00:09:16,120 –> 00:09:18,960
par exemple, pour les relations,

166
00:09:19,040 –> 00:09:21,760
au sein des partenariats professionnels,

167
00:09:21,840 –> 00:09:23,680
où souvent l’homme

168
00:09:23,760 –> 00:09:26,600
est en charge des relations publiques.

169
00:09:26,680 –> 00:09:31,120
Je pense que le rôle
des références est important.

170
00:09:31,200 –> 00:09:36,400
C’est-à-dire de montrer qu’effectivement
les femmes ont investi

171
00:09:36,480 –> 00:09:40,240
les pratiques des métiers d’architecture,
elles ont réussi

172
00:09:40,320 –> 00:09:41,800
dans ces exercices-là.

173
00:09:41,880 –> 00:09:45,200
Donc notamment, par exemple
dans les écoles d’architecture,

174
00:09:45,280 –> 00:09:47,560
comment dire…

175
00:09:47,640 –> 00:09:51,080
en faisant en sorte que les femmes
enseignent davantage le projet,

176
00:09:51,160 –> 00:09:54,400
qu’on ait des références plus féminines.

177
00:09:55,000 –> 00:09:58,120
Je pense qu’il faut voir cette question
dans un cadre

178
00:09:58,200 –> 00:10:00,240
beaucoup, beaucoup plus grand.

179
00:10:01,640 –> 00:10:04,160
Je pense que la petite fille

180
00:10:04,240 –> 00:10:07,400
qui se retrouve dans un magasin de jouets

181
00:10:07,920 –> 00:10:10,000
face à des millions de Barbie

182
00:10:10,480 –> 00:10:11,880
doit déjà se battre.

183
00:10:11,960 –> 00:10:13,720
Je pense que la petite fille

184
00:10:13,800 –> 00:10:17,920
de qui on attend qu’elle soit

185
00:10:18,920 –> 00:10:20,160
douce et soumise

186
00:10:20,240 –> 00:10:21,720
doit déjà se battre.

187
00:10:21,800 –> 00:10:24,680
Je pense que la petite fille

188
00:10:24,760 –> 00:10:28,800
qui est obligée d’apprendre par cœur

189
00:10:28,880 –> 00:10:32,200
la règle du masculin qui l’emporte
sur le féminin à l’école

190
00:10:32,280 –> 00:10:34,120
et qui reçoit des mauvais points

191
00:10:35,920 –> 00:10:39,440
si elle ne répond pas correctement

192
00:10:40,360 –> 00:10:43,720
à cette règle,
si elle ne l’applique pas correctement,

193
00:10:44,280 –> 00:10:47,400
je pense que cette petite fille-là,
elle doit déjà se battre.

194
00:10:47,480 –> 00:10:50,080
L’histoire de l’architecture contemporaine

195
00:10:50,160 –> 00:10:52,280
est une histoire qui reste

196
00:10:52,360 –> 00:10:55,640
en prévalence, une histoire masculine.

197
00:10:55,720 –> 00:10:59,440
Qui voit des grands noms,

198
00:10:59,520 –> 00:11:01,560
grands maîtres

199
00:11:03,320 –> 00:11:04,800
de l’architecture,

200
00:11:05,240 –> 00:11:08,480
mais pas des femmes.

201
00:11:08,560 –> 00:11:12,200
La plupart des biographes
sur Wikipédia sont des hommes

202
00:11:12,280 –> 00:11:17,080
et ils écrivent surtout
des biographies sur des hommes.

203
00:11:17,160 –> 00:11:19,480
Il y a différents mouvements

204
00:11:19,560 –> 00:11:21,720
et différentes façons qui vous prouveront

205
00:11:21,800 –> 00:11:24,000
que les femmes ont été occultées.

206
00:11:26,240 –> 00:11:27,800
Toutes les femmes doivent se battre

207
00:11:28,560 –> 00:11:31,600
à cause de cette règle
de domination masculine

208
00:11:31,680 –> 00:11:35,400
qui entraîne quelques petits soucis
sur chantiers.

209
00:11:35,760 –> 00:11:37,120
On nous siffle sur chantier

210
00:11:37,200 –> 00:11:39,960
ou bien, on me rit au nez
quand je demande un contrat

211
00:11:40,040 –> 00:11:41,840
écrit en neutralité du genre.

212
00:11:41,920 –> 00:11:45,080
Mais, bien plus important que ça,

213
00:11:45,360 –> 00:11:48,360
cette question de la domination masculine

214
00:11:48,440 –> 00:11:52,000
qui est ancrée dans nos sociétés

215
00:11:52,280 –> 00:11:54,560
depuis des millénaires

216
00:11:54,640 –> 00:11:57,080
entraîne la violence faite aux femmes.

217
00:11:57,360 –> 00:11:59,200
C’est quoi que j’ai lu en France?

218
00:11:59,720 –> 00:12:03,320
Tous les trois jours, une femme meurt
en France sous les coups de son conjoint.

219
00:12:04,120 –> 00:12:07,880
Ça entraîne…
Malala, le non-accès à l’éducation.

220
00:12:07,960 –> 00:12:09,040
Ça entraîne…

221
00:12:09,120 –> 00:12:11,600
le viol, l’esclavage etc.

222
00:12:11,960 –> 00:12:13,960
Le but n’est pas du tout d’être

223
00:12:14,240 –> 00:12:16,080
déprimé pendant cette interview.

224
00:12:16,160 –> 00:12:18,080
Mais c’est quand même de ça qu’on parle.

225
00:12:18,160 –> 00:12:20,400
Donc la condition de la femme architecte,

226
00:12:21,000 –> 00:12:23,120
je pense qu’elle a peu d’intérêt
par rapport à cela.

227
00:12:23,200 –> 00:12:26,360
Elle est symptomatique
de quelque chose de beaucoup plus lourd.

228
00:12:27,080 –> 00:12:31,080
Nous n’avons pas assez de présence
dans l’histoire.

229
00:12:31,160 –> 00:12:32,760
Nous n’avons pas assez de présence
en théorie.

230
00:12:32,840 –> 00:12:35,640
Nous n’avons pas assez de présence
en pratique.

231
00:12:35,720 –> 00:12:38,240
De nombreuses femmes se lancent

232
00:12:38,320 –> 00:12:40,440
dans un apprentissage de l’architecture

233
00:12:40,520 –> 00:12:42,920
mais il y a un énorme taux de décrochage.

234
00:12:43,000 –> 00:12:46,160
Notre mission est de fournir

235
00:12:46,240 –> 00:12:48,920
du soutien, des contacts

236
00:12:49,000 –> 00:12:52,720
et une opportunité de se faire entendre,
de créer une plateforme

237
00:12:52,800 –> 00:12:55,360
pour que le public sache ce que l’on fait

238
00:12:55,440 –> 00:12:56,680
et pourquoi c’est important

239
00:12:56,760 –> 00:13:00,320
d’avoir un architecte qui participe
aux projets de construction.

240
00:13:00,400 –> 00:13:01,280
Quand je vois :

241
00:13:01,360 –> 00:13:04,800
« Cherche directeur »,

242
00:13:05,720 –> 00:13:09,200
entre parenthèses, slash femme,

243
00:13:10,440 –> 00:13:12,840
personne ne hurle à la discrimination.

244
00:13:13,280 –> 00:13:15,880
Quand je vois une pub passer pour
l’un des architectes où c’est marqué :

245
00:13:15,960 –> 00:13:18,320
« Seul un architecte peut
en faire autant pour vous »,

246
00:13:19,240 –> 00:13:21,400
je repense à la petite fille

247
00:13:21,760 –> 00:13:25,760
à qui on impose cette règle du masculin
qui l’emporte sur le féminin.

248
00:13:26,120 –> 00:13:30,440
Les gens ne veulent pas voir
qu’il y a une forme de domination

249
00:13:30,520 –> 00:13:32,280
qui mène à une violence dont j’ai parlé.

250
00:13:32,360 –> 00:13:35,560
Je pense que le seul intérêt
de cette interview

251
00:13:35,640 –> 00:13:39,240
c’est d’inviter de façon bienveillante

252
00:13:39,800 –> 00:13:40,960
hommes et femmes

253
00:13:41,320 –> 00:13:42,760
à voir cette question.

254
00:13:43,400 –> 00:13:45,280
Le sujet de ma thèse

255
00:13:45,360 –> 00:13:49,240
était sur la médaille d’or royale
du Royal Institute of British Architects.

256
00:13:49,320 –> 00:13:52,600
C’est une médaille qui était donnée
à quelqu’un

257
00:13:52,680 –> 00:13:54,920
qui a influencé le milieu
de l’architecture.

258
00:13:55,000 –> 00:13:58,960
Ça a commencé en 1848, au XIXe siècle,
et ça continue encore aujourd’hui.

259
00:13:59,040 –> 00:14:02,240
Avant que je ne m’y intéresse,
il n’y a eu aucune recherche

260
00:14:02,320 –> 00:14:03,880
sur la médaille, de façon générale.

261
00:14:03,960 –> 00:14:07,880
Une autre chose, c’est qu’elle s’appelle
la médaille d’or royale

262
00:14:07,960 –> 00:14:10,160
mais elle n’est plus faite en or.

263
00:14:11,560 –> 00:14:14,520
Puis j’ai consacré un chapitre de ma thèse

264
00:14:14,600 –> 00:14:16,520
aux statistiques.

265
00:14:16,600 –> 00:14:21,120
De ces statistiques, j’ai découvert
que la majorité des décorés sont blancs,

266
00:14:21,200 –> 00:14:22,320
masculins,

267
00:14:22,400 –> 00:14:25,440
et ils travaillent
dans des cabinets d’architecture.

268
00:14:25,520 –> 00:14:28,320
Et ils ont la soixantaine.

269
00:14:28,400 –> 00:14:31,760
Cela m’a amenée à faire
des recherches concernant

270
00:14:32,160 –> 00:14:35,280
l’idée contraire, pour le dire ainsi.

271
00:14:35,360 –> 00:14:38,640
Pourquoi des femmes
ne gagnent pas cette médaille?

272
00:14:38,720 –> 00:14:41,000
Avec les deux extrêmes,

273
00:14:41,080 –> 00:14:45,120
nous avons le plus jeune à 45 ans,
le plus âgé à 99 ans.

274
00:14:45,200 –> 00:14:47,280
Ce sont les deux extrêmes.

275
00:14:47,360 –> 00:14:50,720
Et j’ai regardé
les récipiendaires non blancs.

276
00:14:50,800 –> 00:14:52,960
Pourquoi ils n’ont pas obtenu
cette médaille?

277
00:14:53,040 –> 00:14:55,440
Jusqu’en 2016,

278
00:14:55,520 –> 00:14:58,560
aucune femme n’a gagné la médaille seule.

279
00:14:58,640 –> 00:14:59,920
Elles l’ont gagnée en partenariat

280
00:15:00,000 –> 00:15:01,760
avec leur mari car la règle a été changée.

281
00:15:01,840 –> 00:15:04,760
La médaille a été créée en 1848,

282
00:15:04,840 –> 00:15:06,160
elle était destinée à une seule personne,

283
00:15:06,240 –> 00:15:10,000
un individu influençant l’architecture.
Ça peut être un architecte.

284
00:15:10,080 –> 00:15:14,520
83 % sont des architectes, les autres
sont auteurs, journalistes, ingénieurs.

285
00:15:14,600 –> 00:15:18,440
En 1966, ils ont changé la règle

286
00:15:18,520 –> 00:15:21,000
pour accepter
les partenariats d’architectes.

287
00:15:21,080 –> 00:15:24,040
Le premier partenariat
qui a gagné est Powell et Moya.

288
00:15:24,120 –> 00:15:26,880
Ils étaient des architectes modernistes
travaillant à Londres.

289
00:15:26,960 –> 00:15:31,960
Le premier partenariat avec une femme
fut Ray et Charles Eames.

290
00:15:33,240 –> 00:15:36,600
Et désormais,
les choses ont-elles changé ?

291
00:15:36,680 –> 00:15:39,400
Oui car Zaha Hadid a été la première femme

292
00:15:39,480 –> 00:15:42,480
à la médaille d’or seule

293
00:15:42,760 –> 00:15:44,480
en 2016.

294
00:15:44,560 –> 00:15:47,440
Cela a évidemment changé
les proportions des statistiques.

295
00:15:47,520 –> 00:15:50,280
En travaillant sur la médaille d’or
du RIBA,

296
00:15:50,360 –> 00:15:52,920
j’ai décidé de regarder les statistiques

297
00:15:53,000 –> 00:15:55,640
des cinq prix les plus prestigieux
en architecture.

298
00:15:55,720 –> 00:15:56,880
Ce sont pour les individus.

299
00:15:56,960 –> 00:16:00,840
Donc le RIBA,
l’American Institute of Architects, l’AIA,

300
00:16:00,920 –> 00:16:05,320
l’UIA,
l’European Institute of Architecture,

301
00:16:05,400 –> 00:16:06,880
le prix Pritzker,

302
00:16:06,960 –> 00:16:09,600
et le Praemium Imperiale, au Japon.

303
00:16:09,680 –> 00:16:12,680
Tout cela a élargi
le champ d’informations.

304
00:16:12,760 –> 00:16:16,760
J’ai découvert que…
Zaha Hadid a aussi gagné le prix Pritzker.

305
00:16:16,840 –> 00:16:18,920
Elle a aussi gagné le Praemium Imperiale.

306
00:16:19,000 –> 00:16:22,840
Une autre architecte a gagné
le prix Pritzker avec un partenariat.

307
00:16:22,920 –> 00:16:26,160
Et la médaille d’or de l’AIA a été gagnée

308
00:16:26,240 –> 00:16:28,800
par une femme en 2014

309
00:16:28,880 –> 00:16:33,640
et également par Venturi et Scott Brown,
un partenariat homme-femme

310
00:16:33,720 –> 00:16:35,880
en 2016.

311
00:16:46,200 –> 00:16:50,280
Ce que mes élèves, femmes et hommes,
répondent en classe

312
00:16:50,360 –> 00:16:55,040
quand je leur demande s’ils connaissent
des femmes architectes,

313
00:16:55,120 –> 00:16:59,440
leurs réponses sont
très décourageantes et déprimantes

314
00:16:59,960 –> 00:17:02,520
car au final,

315
00:17:03,560 –> 00:17:06,440
ils parlent de la Brésilienne
Lina Bo Bardi

316
00:17:06,520 –> 00:17:08,320
ou Zaha Hadid.

317
00:17:08,720 –> 00:17:12,280
Je dirais Zaha Hadid car elle est morte.

318
00:17:12,880 –> 00:17:17,080
Quand elle est morte,
elle a gagné en visibilité.

319
00:17:17,600 –> 00:17:22,480
Et Lina Bo Bardi car il y a
beaucoup d’étudiants brésiliens ;

320
00:17:22,920 –> 00:17:27,160
ainsi ils apportent
une certaine culture architecturale…

321
00:17:28,880 –> 00:17:30,160
je dirais, peut-être,

322
00:17:30,960 –> 00:17:33,200
plus mature et donc plus consciente

323
00:17:33,280 –> 00:17:36,080
de qui était Lina Bo Bardi.

324
00:17:36,400 –> 00:17:38,760
Mais… c’est tout.

325
00:17:39,480 –> 00:17:44,080
Voilà les seuls retours
que l’on peut avoir

326
00:17:44,160 –> 00:17:47,200
des étudiants, hommes
et femmes, ce qui signifie que,

327
00:17:48,160 –> 00:17:51,480
dans l’imaginaire architectural

328
00:17:52,480 –> 00:17:56,320
de ceux entrant à l’université pour
devenir architecte, hommes comme femmes,

329
00:17:58,280 –> 00:18:00,400
les femmes architectes n’existent pas.

330
00:18:00,480 –> 00:18:02,120
Dans notre université

331
00:18:02,200 –> 00:18:04,640
et la majorité des universités

332
00:18:04,720 –> 00:18:07,320
et cours en architecture,

333
00:18:07,400 –> 00:18:10,640
il n’y a pas de cours de genre.

334
00:18:11,080 –> 00:18:14,400
J’ai étudié à la fin des années 80,
début des années 90.

335
00:18:14,480 –> 00:18:18,080
J’étais souvent la seule étudiante
dans mon studio de design.

336
00:18:18,160 –> 00:18:19,160
Et…

337
00:18:20,200 –> 00:18:21,640
J’étais dans une école technique.

338
00:18:21,720 –> 00:18:25,880
Ça ne me semblait donc pas anormal

339
00:18:25,960 –> 00:18:28,160
d’avoir si peu d’étudiantes.

340
00:18:28,240 –> 00:18:30,160
Puis j’ai fait mes études universitaires

341
00:18:30,240 –> 00:18:31,640
où l’effectif était paritaire.

342
00:18:31,720 –> 00:18:33,760
Ils trouvaient important de nous dire :

343
00:18:33,840 –> 00:18:38,040
« Vous êtes la première classe
avec une parité parfaite. »

344
00:18:38,880 –> 00:18:40,680
Alors j’ai commencé à me dire :

345
00:18:40,760 –> 00:18:42,560
« C’est visiblement un problème. »

346
00:18:42,640 –> 00:18:44,440
Et quand j’ai commencé à travailler

347
00:18:44,520 –> 00:18:49,000
à New York, c’est devenu évident
que les femmes n’ont pas

348
00:18:49,080 –> 00:18:51,480
le même potentiel de direction
ou d’opportunités

349
00:18:51,560 –> 00:18:53,680
que mes collègues masculins.

350
00:18:53,760 –> 00:18:57,880
Et mes collègues plus âgés
étaient presque tous des hommes.

351
00:18:58,280 –> 00:19:01,040
C’est là que ça a commencé pour moi,

352
00:19:01,120 –> 00:19:05,520
j’ai commencé à regarder de près
l’histoire de la femme en architecture.

353
00:19:05,600 –> 00:19:07,720
En regardant les années 70,

354
00:19:07,800 –> 00:19:10,920
j’ai compris qu’il y a eu
ces mouvements de femmes

355
00:19:11,000 –> 00:19:12,960
aux États-Unis et à l’étranger

356
00:19:13,040 –> 00:19:17,040
pour sensibiliser, se faire entendre
et être payées de façon égalitaire.

357
00:19:17,120 –> 00:19:18,320
Cela…

358
00:19:18,720 –> 00:19:21,280
Tout cela a eu lieu
il y a plusieurs décennies

359
00:19:21,360 –> 00:19:25,240
mais nous sommes clairement à une période
où il y a une énorme

360
00:19:25,320 –> 00:19:26,880
prise de conscience globale

361
00:19:26,960 –> 00:19:29,160
et de l’énergie autour de ces questions.

362
00:19:29,240 –> 00:19:30,120
Je pense que…

363
00:19:30,200 –> 00:19:32,440
J’ignore si c’est bien ou mal
de dire que c’est cool

364
00:19:32,520 –> 00:19:37,120
mais nous sommes dans un moment
de l’histoire plein d’énergie.

365
00:19:37,200 –> 00:19:39,240
Ça me semble

366
00:19:39,320 –> 00:19:42,360
différent, au moins en théorie,
de ce qu’on a connu par le passé.

367
00:19:42,440 –> 00:19:43,960
Je ne sais pas si c’est vrai

368
00:19:44,040 –> 00:19:48,400
mais je crois que la portée mondiale
est ce qui rend tout ça si puissant.

369
00:19:48,480 –> 00:19:51,000
Le potentiel de travailler ensemble
au travers

370
00:19:51,080 –> 00:19:55,560
de notre propre pays,
ça a tant de potentiel.

371
00:19:56,680 –> 00:19:59,080
En tant que professeur, homme ou femme,

372
00:20:00,640 –> 00:20:04,360
en tant qu’activiste,
il est primordial d’amplifier

373
00:20:05,440 –> 00:20:08,640
autant que possible les modèles.

374
00:20:09,000 –> 00:20:12,600
Car la réduction absurde de ce modèle

375
00:20:12,680 –> 00:20:15,480
d’architecte star, blanc,

376
00:20:15,800 –> 00:20:18,280
masculin, riche,

377
00:20:19,280 –> 00:20:20,880
occidental,

378
00:20:21,280 –> 00:20:23,720
met de côté un grand éventail

379
00:20:25,200 –> 00:20:29,040
de diversité et de possibilités
pour être architecte.

380
00:20:29,120 –> 00:20:33,000
Je crois qu’il y a des structures
culturelles, sociales et politiques

381
00:20:33,320 –> 00:20:35,320
qui sont si profondément

382
00:20:35,640 –> 00:20:38,840
incrustées dans notre discipline.

383
00:20:38,920 –> 00:20:41,920
Je crois que c’est en partie la discipline
et en partie sociétal.

384
00:20:42,000 –> 00:20:45,720
Il est clair que d’autres disciplines
ont fait un meilleur travail

385
00:20:45,800 –> 00:20:48,840
pour créer plus de parité.

386
00:20:48,920 –> 00:20:51,480
Mais l’architecture s’est beaucoup entêtée

387
00:20:51,560 –> 00:20:54,760
et a refusé de s’y intéresser.

388
00:20:54,840 –> 00:20:57,160
Ce n’est pas à propos des femmes,

389
00:20:57,240 –> 00:20:59,040
et je déteste quand les gens disent :

390
00:20:59,120 –> 00:21:00,880
« Oh, vous ne faites pas assez d’efforts. »

391
00:21:00,960 –> 00:21:04,120
« Vous ne vous mettez pas assez en avant. »

392
00:21:04,440 –> 00:21:07,000
Non, il y a des problèmes institutionnels,

393
00:21:07,080 –> 00:21:10,560
des structures qui ont rendu très…

394
00:21:10,880 –> 00:21:12,960
qui ont favorisé
les hommes et non les femmes.

395
00:21:13,040 –> 00:21:17,000
Et tant que l’on n’aura pas plus de femmes
notamment aux postes de direction,

396
00:21:17,080 –> 00:21:21,120
dirigeant des écoles
ou à des niveaux significatifs,

397
00:21:21,200 –> 00:21:24,040
dans les jurys de récompenses,

398
00:21:24,400 –> 00:21:25,680
les choses ne changeront pas.

399
00:21:25,760 –> 00:21:29,120
Je crois qu’il s’agit à la fois
d’une approche ascendante et descendante

400
00:21:29,200 –> 00:21:30,520
et…

401
00:21:32,480 –> 00:21:36,240
Je crois que l’ascension est
ce qui créera le changement

402
00:21:36,320 –> 00:21:37,640
car il est clair…

403
00:21:37,720 –> 00:21:41,160
Je crois que… Ça fait plus d’un siècle,

404
00:21:41,240 –> 00:21:45,600
du moins aux États-Unis,
que les femmes ont fait des progrès

405
00:21:45,680 –> 00:21:47,920
mais tout ça a été si lent.

406
00:21:48,000 –> 00:21:50,960
Ce sont les structures qui doivent changer

407
00:21:51,040 –> 00:21:54,960
et l’attitude de ceux qui dirigent
qui doit évoluer.

408
00:21:55,440 –> 00:21:57,720
Ainsi, il y aura plus de parité.

409
00:21:57,800 –> 00:22:01,840
Il y aura de la parité,
pas plus de parité, entre les genres.

410
00:22:01,920 –> 00:22:05,880
Désormais, on le sait et on peut pousser
dans la même direction.

411
00:22:05,960 –> 00:22:08,680
Quand quelqu’un…

412
00:22:08,760 –> 00:22:13,560
Des gens disent que les femmes
ne se mettent pas assez en avant.

413
00:22:14,080 –> 00:22:17,680
Le problème est un problème de timing.

414
00:22:17,760 –> 00:22:20,560
Si vous devez gérer votre famille
et votre travail.

415
00:22:20,640 –> 00:22:23,160
Tu es une architecte, une féministe

416
00:22:23,240 –> 00:22:26,720
et mère de famille également.
C’est important ce rôle de mère?

417
00:22:27,960 –> 00:22:30,880
Je crois que le fait

418
00:22:31,600 –> 00:22:34,560
d’être mère ne fait

419
00:22:34,640 –> 00:22:38,560
qu’ajouter plus de complexité,

420
00:22:39,960 –> 00:22:43,800
de richesse, parfois de difficulté,
au rôle de femme.

421
00:22:46,640 –> 00:22:49,520
Cela n’ajoute ou ne retire rien,

422
00:22:51,200 –> 00:22:55,520
mais ça apporte une perception en plus,

423
00:22:56,600 –> 00:23:01,160
y compris les problèmes d’inégalités.

424
00:23:01,560 –> 00:23:05,800
C’est encore difficile de nos jours
d’être une mère et une architecte?

425
00:23:05,880 –> 00:23:09,280
Actuellement je ne travaille pas
comme architecte…

426
00:23:10,840 –> 00:23:12,520
en tant que profession libérale.

427
00:23:14,800 –> 00:23:16,000
Cela veut dire que…

428
00:23:18,000 –> 00:23:20,400
ma perception…

429
00:23:20,480 –> 00:23:23,200
selon les données portugaises,

430
00:23:23,480 –> 00:23:29,800
est qu’il y a un vrai abandon des femmes
pour la profession libérale,

431
00:23:30,480 –> 00:23:33,600
pour la pratique de l’architecture,

432
00:23:34,200 –> 00:23:40,120
quand vient le moment de choisir
la maternité et la famille.

433
00:23:40,440 –> 00:23:44,560
Est-ce que tu aurais un message à donner
aux architectes

434
00:23:44,640 –> 00:23:47,800
ou étudiantes d’architecture
qui regarderaient ce film ?

435
00:23:53,160 –> 00:23:54,800
Nous ne sommes pas seules.

436
00:23:55,240 –> 00:23:56,840
Nous sommes nombreuses.

437
00:23:57,960 –> 00:24:02,000
Nous faisons face
à une prise de conscience importante

438
00:24:03,040 –> 00:24:07,440
des inégalités, de l’invisibilisation
dont on est victimes.

439
00:24:07,840 –> 00:24:08,840
Et…

440
00:24:10,560 –> 00:24:14,240
je crois que c’est
une époque de changement,

441
00:24:15,120 –> 00:24:18,160
mais ce changement ne nous est pas offert,

442
00:24:18,400 –> 00:24:21,640
c’est un changement
pour lequel la lutte est primordiale,

443
00:24:21,720 –> 00:24:25,840
continuer à se battre
voire intensifier notre lutte

444
00:24:25,920 –> 00:24:29,960
pour le droit d’être les architectes
que nous voulons être.