Technical sheet of this architecture video clip
Journalist : Emma C. Dessouroux
Cameraman : Mister Emma

Editing : Emma C. Dessouroux / Cristina Dias
Direction : Emma C. Dessouroux
Production : Les Délires Productions

Translation : Strakermedia – Comtrans
Rereading : Serge Ryckoort / Emelire
Subtitles : Les Délires Productions

Speakers : Andrea Leers, Architect, Leers Weinzapfel Associates Architects (USA) – Jane Weinzapfel, Architect, Leers Weinzapfel Associates Architects – Francesca Perani, Architect, FrancescaPeraniEnterprise, Curator of Architette (Italy) – Imma Jansana, Architect, Jansana, De La Villa, De Paauw Arquitectes (Spain) – Eliana Perotti, Senior resercher, ETH Zürich (Switzerland) – Lori Brown, Architect, Co-founder of ArchiteXX, Professor at Syracuse University (USA) – Fluvia Fagotto, Architect, Archistudio associati (Italy) – Patricia Santos Pedrosa, President, Mulheres na Arquitectura (Portugal) – Stéphanie Bouysse-Mesnage, Architect, Architecture historian (France) – Sabine Leribaux, Architect, architectesassoc. (Belgium) – Caterina Franchini, Coordinator, MoMoWo (Italy) – Liz Walder, Architectural Historian (England)

English Subtitles

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Jane and I

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came to the beginning of our profession

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in what I would call
the second wave of feminism,

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after the first wave of suffragettes.

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That was the 1970s, there was a real
woman’s movement in the United States.

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And we worked very hard and long

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to advance

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the equality of women at that time,

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despite enormous differences.

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Then we went through a long period
of thinking it was fixed.

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Women’s rights are continuously fixed now.

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This is since Athens,

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when women were put back in their house,

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after centuries of being out in the world.

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We have to be rebels because

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we need to make the changes now.

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Everything is changing in the world
and there is more

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consciousness about the fact that women

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didn’t get enough visibility in the past.

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So it’s the perfect moment
to be together with men

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in promoting a more equal panorama

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in the architectural field.

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Can you explain again the evolution

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of female architects from the beginning,

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when you started, up to today?

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There has definitely been
an evolution that’s noteworthy

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even if there’s still a way to go,

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for example when I started studying,
in my class,

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which was composed
of roughly 100 students,

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there were only ten women
studying architecture.

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Today, it’s more like half and half.

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That’s already quite significant.

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And in our profession,

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women architects actually practicing,

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are quite numerous,

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I couldn’t give you numbers

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since I have not done

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specific research on the matter,

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but I do gather
that they participate enormously

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in the architectural profession.

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The history of women in architecture

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is not a long one,

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cause we know that women got late

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access to the university and…

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that was a first

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und maybe slow step.

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The second obstacle

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that the woman had to overcome,

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who wanted to become architect,

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is to assert oneself

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in this work environment

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and therefore

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until today we have

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a deficient historiography

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which does not represent the reality

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but provides only a mainstream narrative.

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Now, we continue to have

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the occasions,

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over many centuries,

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of having a woman’s voice

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and the…

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a situation of…

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a male dominance and power

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that has been for several centuries now.

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And so right now,

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yes, there is a great discussion

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of women’s rights.

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As you probably know, in the US,

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we had an equal rights amendment

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that we tried to have passed

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for our whole country.

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Many states ratified it, but not enough.

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And that was in the ’60s and early ’70s.

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We are now again at a place

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with the #MeToo,

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which has a…

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a great number of women
speaking out against

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sexual misconduct.

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I think culturally,

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people are listening,

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and it crosses so many disciplines,

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and I think that collective power
is amazing.

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And I think

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we have to seize this opportunity
within architecture

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to really force

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our discipline to have to respond.

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So I think the #MeToo movement
is an incredible opp…

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I mean, as sad as it is on one hand,

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it’s an opportunity
that we have to engage.

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Like absolutely.

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Well, actually, it’s been
quite a strong movement.,

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quite involved and engaging.

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As far as the architecture world
is concerned,

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some particular names,

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very disconcerting, in fact.

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But, in Italy, unfortunately still today,

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we’re not yet going
in the right direction.

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I admire immensely what Christine Murray,

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from England, has said,

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seeking to introduce guidelines
to denounce discrimination

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or inopportune attitudes

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which definitely exist in Italian firms

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since I myself can attest
having been subject to it once.

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It definitely happens, being
a mostly masculine environment.

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These unpleasant episodes
unfortunately do happen.

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Something has to be done.

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MeToo started something,

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and now we must progress,

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we must make more steps forward.

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Is it still important today
to fight for women’s rights?

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It’s not fixed yet?

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We represent more than 50%
of women in universities

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who are studying.
Architecture also, not only in Portugal.

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We are a significant part
of the labor market.

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We represent, as of now, in Portugal,

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45% of the number of people in
the Association of Portuguese Architects.

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But we are completely invisible

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as Project Coordinator,
responsible for the ateliers,

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as curator.

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As… etc., etc…

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So, what exists is something
very common regarding professions,

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liberal professions,
which were very masculine,

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that have gone through
a « feminization » process,

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but the base of the pyramid is feminine,

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but on the top of it,
it’s extremely masculine.

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Therefore, yes, answering
in a simpler way,

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we have many fights ahead of us.

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Professionally,
regarding architecture practices,

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in the universities as well,

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as we are still minority
as architecture teachers,

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while in theory and in history,
we are still

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in the disciplinary sectors

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which are more acceptable
according to the canon,

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much less in project classes,
to coordinate them,

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but also in the public institutions
and the government as well.

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It’s paramount that the fight–

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and when I talk about government,
I talk about political power–

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that this feminine fight for visibility,

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for their rights…

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not to be excluded for being women.

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And also, that they can shape
the kind of architect

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that they consider adequate.

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Because another issue inside architecture

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is that there is a system
which is very focused

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on an idea of « star architects »

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and this movie stars
of architecture are…

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very oppressive models,

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too castrating and delimiting
of what we believe we can be

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as architects.

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I believe there are several reasons
for this phenomenon.

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The reason often mentioned

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is the family engagement

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that women have

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and which overtake women
after they graduate from the university

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but probably there are some other factors.

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I think, for women it is harder

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to get access to the work environment.

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It is harder for them

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to present themselves in public.

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They often have a less
stronger financial background,

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therefore they often

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cannot open their own office

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and there is

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a traditional role model

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e.g. in relationships,

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in professional partnerships,

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that often the man

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is in charge of the public relations.

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I think the role of references
is important,

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showing that women
have actually become involved

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in practicing architectural trades,
that they have succeeded

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in those practices.

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Especially, for example,
in architecture schools,

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how can I say it…

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by having women teach about projects more,

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so we have more female references.

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I think you have to look at this issue

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from a much larger perspective.

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I think the little girl

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who ends up in a toy store

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in front of millions of Barbies,

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must put up a fight.

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I think the little girl

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who is expected to be

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sweet and submissive

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must put up a fight.

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I think the little girl

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who is forced to learn by heart,
the rule that

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the masculine has priority
over the feminine at school,

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and she receives bad grades

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if she doesn’t do it correctly

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to this rule,
if she doesn’t apply it correctly,

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I think this little girl
must put up a fight.

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The history of contemporary architecture

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remains prevalent,

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a male history.

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You see big names,

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great masters

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of architecture,

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but not women.

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Most of the biographers,
Wikipedians, were men

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and they put many biographies of men.

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So there are different movements

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in different ways, that will prove to you

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that women have been hidden.

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All women must fight

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because of this rule of male domination

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which causes small problems
on building sites,

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we are whistled on work sites,

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or well, they laugh at me
when I ask for a contract

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to be written in neutral gender.

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But, more important than that,

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this issue of male domination

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which is rooted in our societies

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for millenniums

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has led to violence against women.

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What did I read in France?

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Every three days in France, a woman dies
from being beaten by her spouse.

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It entails…
Malala, no access to education.

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It entails…

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rape, slavery etc.

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The goal is not to be

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depressed during this interview.

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But that’s still what we talk about.

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So the condition of the female architects,

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I think has little interest in this.

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It’s symptomatic
of something much heavier.

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We don’t have enough presence in history.

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We don’t have enough presence in theory.

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We don’t have enough presence in practice.

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There are plenty of women who seek

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architectural education,

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but there is an enormous dropout rate.

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So our mission is to provide

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support, networking,

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and opportunities through their voices
to be heard, to create a platform

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for the public to know what we are doing

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and why it’s important

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to have an architect participating
in building projects.

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00:13:00,400 –> 00:13:01,280
When I see:

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« Seeking a director »

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in parentheses, or a female director,

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no one shouts discrimination.

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When I see an ad for an architect
where it is marked:

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« Only an architect can do
the same for you »,

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I think back to the little girl

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to whom we are imposing
this rule of male domination.

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People don’t want to see that
there is a form of domination

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leading to violence which I mentioned.

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I think the only interest
of this interview

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is to kindly invite

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men and women

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to look at this issue.

254
00:13:43,400 –> 00:13:45,280
My research for my PHD

255
00:13:45,360 –> 00:13:49,240
was about the Royal Gold Medal of
the Royal Institute of British Architects.

256
00:13:49,320 –> 00:13:52,600
And that is a medal
that was given to somebody

257
00:13:52,680 –> 00:13:54,920
who influences the field of architecture.

258
00:13:55,000 –> 00:13:58,960
It was started in 1848, the 19th Century,
and it’s still going on today.

259
00:13:59,040 –> 00:14:02,240
Before I came along,
there had not been any research

260
00:14:02,320 –> 00:14:03,880
on the medal at all.

261
00:14:03,960 –> 00:14:07,880
Another thing that came up
was that it’s called the Royal Gold Medal,

262
00:14:07,960 –> 00:14:10,160
but it’s not made out of gold anymore.

263
00:14:11,560 –> 00:14:14,520
Then I did a whole chapter in my PHD

264
00:14:14,600 –> 00:14:16,520
about statistics.

265
00:14:16,600 –> 00:14:21,120
From those statistics, I found out that
the majority of the winners are white,

266
00:14:21,200 –> 00:14:22,320
male,

267
00:14:22,400 –> 00:14:25,440
and they are working
in architectural practices,

268
00:14:25,520 –> 00:14:28,320
and they are in their 60’s really.

269
00:14:28,400 –> 00:14:31,760
So that lead me to do extra research

270
00:14:32,160 –> 00:14:35,280
on the opposing arguments, if you like.

271
00:14:35,360 –> 00:14:38,640
Within that is the women who
have not won the medal, and why not?

272
00:14:38,720 –> 00:14:41,000
The two extreme ends,

273
00:14:41,080 –> 00:14:45,120
so the youngest medalist is 45,
the oldest is 99.

274
00:14:45,200 –> 00:14:47,280
And to look at those extremes.

275
00:14:47,360 –> 00:14:50,720
And then also to look at non-white people,

276
00:14:50,800 –> 00:14:52,960
and why they haven’t won the medal.

277
00:14:53,040 –> 00:14:55,440
Until about 2016,

278
00:14:55,520 –> 00:14:58,560
there were no women winning
the RIBA medal on their own.

279
00:14:58,640 –> 00:14:59,920
They won it in partnership

280
00:15:00,000 –> 00:15:01,760
with their husband, but rules changed.

281
00:15:01,840 –> 00:15:04,760
So when the medal was established in 1848,

282
00:15:04,840 –> 00:15:06,160
it was for one person,

283
00:15:06,240 –> 00:15:10,000
an individual influencing architecture.
They could be an architect.

284
00:15:10,080 –> 00:15:14,520
83% are architects, the rest are writers,
journalists, engineers, etc.

285
00:15:14,600 –> 00:15:18,440
And in 1966, they changed the rules,

286
00:15:18,520 –> 00:15:21,000
so that it can be
an architectural partnership.

287
00:15:21,080 –> 00:15:24,040
The first partnership that won
was Powell and Moya,

288
00:15:24,120 –> 00:15:26,880
who were modernist architects
working in London.

289
00:15:26,960 –> 00:15:31,960
Then the first partnership that included
a woman, was Ray and Charles Eames.

290
00:15:33,240 –> 00:15:36,600
And for nowadays,
have things changed or not?

291
00:15:36,680 –> 00:15:39,400
Yes, because Zaha Hadid
was the first woman

292
00:15:39,480 –> 00:15:42,480
to win the RIBA gold medal
in her own right

293
00:15:42,760 –> 00:15:44,480
in 2016.

294
00:15:44,560 –> 00:15:47,440
So that obviously changed
the balance of the statistics.

295
00:15:47,520 –> 00:15:50,280
From working just
on the gold medal of the RIBA,

296
00:15:50,360 –> 00:15:52,920
I took it upon myself
to look at the statistics

297
00:15:53,000 –> 00:15:55,640
for the top five prizes
in the world for architecture.

298
00:15:55,720 –> 00:15:56,880
This is for individuals.

299
00:15:56,960 –> 00:16:00,840
So that’s the RIBA,
American Institute of Architects, the AIA,

300
00:16:00,920 –> 00:16:05,320
the UIA, which is
the European Institute of Architects,

301
00:16:05,400 –> 00:16:06,880
the Pritzker Prize,

302
00:16:06,960 –> 00:16:09,600
and the Praemium Imperiale,
which is from Japan.

303
00:16:09,680 –> 00:16:12,680
And so obviously that widened
my field of information,

304
00:16:12,760 –> 00:16:16,760
and I found that Zaha Hadid
had also won the Pritzker Prize,

305
00:16:16,840 –> 00:16:18,920
and she had also won
the Praemium Imperiale.

306
00:16:19,000 –> 00:16:22,840
Another architectural partnership
has won the Pritzker Prize,

307
00:16:22,920 –> 00:16:26,160
and then the AIA gold medal was won

308
00:16:26,240 –> 00:16:28,800
by a woman in 2014

309
00:16:28,880 –> 00:16:33,640
and also by Venturi and Scott Brown,
a woman and man partnership,

310
00:16:33,720 –> 00:16:35,880
in 2016.

311
00:16:46,200 –> 00:16:50,280
What my students,
women and men, answer in class

312
00:16:50,360 –> 00:16:55,040
when I ask them if they know
any woman who is an architect,

313
00:16:55,120 –> 00:16:59,600
their answers are very discouraging
and depressive

314
00:16:59,960 –> 00:17:02,520
because, eventually,

315
00:17:03,560 –> 00:17:06,440
they refer to the Brazilian Lina Bo Bardi

316
00:17:06,520 –> 00:17:08,320
or Zaha Hadid.

317
00:17:08,720 –> 00:17:12,280
I would say Zaha Hadid,
eventually, because she is dead.

318
00:17:12,880 –> 00:17:17,080
And when she died,
she had an extra visibility.

319
00:17:17,600 –> 00:17:22,480
And Lina Bo Bardi because
there are many Brazilian students

320
00:17:22,920 –> 00:17:27,160
and therefore, they bring
a certain architectonic culture…

321
00:17:28,880 –> 00:17:30,160
I would say, maybe,

322
00:17:30,960 –> 00:17:33,200
more mature and, therefore, more conscious

323
00:17:33,280 –> 00:17:35,760
about the character Lina Bo Bardi was.

324
00:17:36,400 –> 00:17:38,760
But… that’s it.

325
00:17:39,480 –> 00:17:44,080
This is the most feedback we can get

326
00:17:44,160 –> 00:17:47,200
from the students, men
and women, which means that,

327
00:17:48,160 –> 00:17:51,720
in the architectural imaginary,

328
00:17:52,480 –> 00:17:56,320
of who enters university to become
an architect, men and women,

329
00:17:58,280 –> 00:18:00,400
the female architects are not there.

330
00:18:00,480 –> 00:18:02,120
In our university

331
00:18:02,200 –> 00:18:04,640
and the majority of universities

332
00:18:04,720 –> 00:18:07,320
and architectural courses,

333
00:18:07,400 –> 00:18:10,640
there are no gender courses.

334
00:18:11,080 –> 00:18:14,400
I went to school in the late ’80s
and early ’90s.

335
00:18:14,480 –> 00:18:18,080
I often was the only female student
in my design studios.

336
00:18:18,160 –> 00:18:19,160
And…

337
00:18:20,200 –> 00:18:21,560
I was in a technical school.

338
00:18:21,640 –> 00:18:25,880
So I didn’t necessarily think of that
as being that unusual,

339
00:18:25,960 –> 00:18:28,160
not to have that many female students.

340
00:18:28,240 –> 00:18:30,160
And then I went into grad school

341
00:18:30,240 –> 00:18:31,640
and it was 50-50.

342
00:18:31,720 –> 00:18:33,760
And they made a big deal, saying:

343
00:18:33,840 –> 00:18:38,040
« You are the first class where we have
equal representation of both genders. »

344
00:18:38,880 –> 00:18:40,680
So that started me thinking:

345
00:18:40,760 –> 00:18:42,560
« I guess this is clearly an issue. »

346
00:18:42,640 –> 00:18:44,440
And once I got into practice,

347
00:18:44,520 –> 00:18:49,000
in New York city, it became very evident
that women weren’t having

348
00:18:49,080 –> 00:18:51,480
the same leadership potential
or opportunities

349
00:18:51,560 –> 00:18:53,680
as my male colleagues.

350
00:18:53,760 –> 00:18:57,880
But also the senior colleagues
were almost all men.

351
00:18:58,280 –> 00:19:00,960
So that became a starting point for me,

352
00:19:01,040 –> 00:19:05,520
to begin to look closely at what has been
the history of women in architecture.

353
00:19:05,600 –> 00:19:07,720
And looking back towards the ’70s,

354
00:19:07,800 –> 00:19:10,920
and starting to understand that there
had been these movements of women

355
00:19:11,000 –> 00:19:12,800
in the US and abroad,

356
00:19:12,880 –> 00:19:17,040
trying to raise awareness,
have more voice, to get paid equally.

357
00:19:17,120 –> 00:19:18,360
So these…

358
00:19:18,720 –> 00:19:21,280
So there are decades
where this has happened,

359
00:19:21,360 –> 00:19:24,280
but we’re clearly at a moment
where there is

360
00:19:24,360 –> 00:19:26,880
an enormous global awareness

361
00:19:26,960 –> 00:19:29,160
and energy around these issues.

362
00:19:29,240 –> 00:19:30,120
So I think…

363
00:19:30,200 –> 00:19:32,440
I don’t know if it’s good
or bad to say cyclical,

364
00:19:32,520 –> 00:19:37,120
but we’re definitely in a very energized
moment in history.

365
00:19:37,200 –> 00:19:39,240
That seems,

366
00:19:39,320 –> 00:19:42,360
at least on paper, different
than the ones that have come before.

367
00:19:42,440 –> 00:19:43,960
I don’t know if it’s true or not,

368
00:19:44,040 –> 00:19:48,400
but I think the global reach is
one of the things that’s so powerful.

369
00:19:48,480 –> 00:19:50,320
And the potential of us working together

370
00:19:50,400 –> 00:19:55,560
across our own countries
has so much potential.

371
00:19:56,680 –> 00:19:59,080
As teachers, men or women,

372
00:20:00,640 –> 00:20:04,320
as activists, it is paramount to amplify,

373
00:20:05,440 –> 00:20:08,640
as much as possible, the models.

374
00:20:09,000 –> 00:20:12,320
Because the absurd reduction of this model

375
00:20:12,600 –> 00:20:15,480
of star architect, white,

376
00:20:15,960 –> 00:20:18,320
rich, man,

377
00:20:19,280 –> 00:20:20,600
occidental,

378
00:20:21,280 –> 00:20:23,720
leaves out a great range

379
00:20:25,200 –> 00:20:29,040
of diversity and possibilities
to be an architect, men or women.

380
00:20:29,120 –> 00:20:33,000
I think there’s cultural, social,
political structures

381
00:20:33,080 –> 00:20:38,840
that are so deeply embedded
in our discipline.

382
00:20:38,920 –> 00:20:42,600
I think part of it’s the discipline,
part of it’s societal, that…

383
00:20:43,160 –> 00:20:45,720
I mean, clearly other disciplines
have done a better job

384
00:20:45,800 –> 00:20:48,840
of trying to create more parity
between the genders.

385
00:20:48,920 –> 00:20:51,480
But architecture has been so recalcitrant

386
00:20:51,560 –> 00:20:54,760
in not wanting to address it.

387
00:20:54,840 –> 00:20:57,160
So I don’t think… it’s not women,

388
00:20:57,240 –> 00:20:58,920
and I hate when people say:

389
00:20:59,000 –> 00:21:00,760
« Oh, you’re not trying enough, » or,

390
00:21:00,840 –> 00:21:04,120
« You’re not marketing yourself enough. »

391
00:21:04,440 –> 00:21:07,000
No, there’s institutional problems,

392
00:21:07,080 –> 00:21:10,560
structures that have made it very…

393
00:21:10,880 –> 00:21:12,960
made it easier for men, than for women.

394
00:21:13,040 –> 00:21:17,000
Until we have more women
in upper management, upper leadership,

395
00:21:17,080 –> 00:21:20,840
directing schools at a significant level,

396
00:21:21,760 –> 00:21:23,960
on juries for awards,

397
00:21:24,440 –> 00:21:25,680
things are not going to change.

398
00:21:25,760 –> 00:21:29,320
From the bottom-up, I think it’s both
a bottom-up and a top-down

399
00:21:29,400 –> 00:21:30,520
and…

400
00:21:33,040 –> 00:21:36,240
the bottom up is the thing
that’s going to force the change,

401
00:21:36,320 –> 00:21:37,640
because clearly…

402
00:21:37,720 –> 00:21:41,160
I think… It’s been over 100 years,

403
00:21:41,240 –> 00:21:45,600
at least in the United States,
where women have made progress,

404
00:21:45,680 –> 00:21:47,920
but it’s been glacially slow.

405
00:21:48,000 –> 00:21:50,960
So, it’s the structures
that have to change,

406
00:21:51,040 –> 00:21:55,120
and the attitudes of those in power
that have to evolve,

407
00:21:55,440 –> 00:21:57,720
so that there is more parity.

408
00:21:57,800 –> 00:22:01,840
So there is parity, not more parity,
but parity between the genders.

409
00:22:01,920 –> 00:22:05,880
OK, now we know it and we can all
push in the same direction.

410
00:22:05,960 –> 00:22:08,680
And when somebody…

411
00:22:08,760 –> 00:22:13,560
People say that women
don’t put themselves forward enough.

412
00:22:14,080 –> 00:22:17,680
Well the problem is a timing problem,

413
00:22:17,760 –> 00:22:20,560
if you have to deal with family,
with the work environment.

414
00:22:20,640 –> 00:22:23,160
You are an architect, a feminist,

415
00:22:23,240 –> 00:22:26,720
and a mother too.
Is the role of mother important?

416
00:22:27,960 –> 00:22:30,880
I believe that the state

417
00:22:31,600 –> 00:22:34,560
of maternity is just another state,

418
00:22:34,640 –> 00:22:38,560
added to become more complex,

419
00:22:39,960 –> 00:22:43,800
richer, sometimes, harder,
the role of being a woman.

420
00:22:46,640 –> 00:22:49,520
It doesn’t give me more nor less,

421
00:22:51,200 –> 00:22:55,640
but it brings me an extra perception,

422
00:22:56,600 –> 00:23:00,920
including issues of inequalities.

423
00:23:01,560 –> 00:23:05,800
Is it still hard today to be both
a mother and an architect?

424
00:23:05,880 –> 00:23:09,280
Currently I am not working
as an architect…

425
00:23:10,840 –> 00:23:12,520
as a liberal professional.

426
00:23:14,800 –> 00:23:16,000
This means that…

427
00:23:18,000 –> 00:23:20,280
my perception…

428
00:23:20,600 –> 00:23:23,200
according to Portuguese data,

429
00:23:23,480 –> 00:23:29,800
is that there is a true abandonment
of women in liberal professions,

430
00:23:30,480 –> 00:23:33,600
from architecture practice,

431
00:23:34,200 –> 00:23:40,120
when there comes the moment
to choose maternity and family.

432
00:23:48,280 –> 00:23:53,080
Do you have a message
for the viewers of this documentary?

433
00:23:53,160 –> 00:23:54,800
We’re not alone.

434
00:23:55,240 –> 00:23:56,840
We’re many.

435
00:23:57,960 –> 00:24:02,000
We’re facing an important moment
to become aware

436
00:24:03,040 –> 00:24:07,440
of inequalities,
of the invisibility they put us in.

437
00:24:07,840 –> 00:24:08,840
And…

438
00:24:10,480 –> 00:24:14,240
I believe this is a time of change,

439
00:24:15,120 –> 00:24:17,960
but this change isn’t offered to us,

440
00:24:18,400 –> 00:24:21,640
it’s a change which is paramount
to fight for,

441
00:24:21,720 –> 00:24:25,840
to keep fighting and,
eventually, to intensify our fight

442
00:24:25,920 –> 00:24:30,040
for the right to be the architects
we want to be.

French Subtitles

1
00:00:03,560 –> 00:00:04,920
Jane et moi

2
00:00:05,000 –> 00:00:07,320
avons rejoint cette profession

3
00:00:07,400 –> 00:00:10,400
au moment de ce que j’appellerais
la deuxième vague féministe,

4
00:00:10,480 –> 00:00:12,760
après la première vague des suffragettes.

5
00:00:12,840 –> 00:00:17,680
C’étaient les années 70,
le mouvement des femmes aux États-Unis.

6
00:00:17,760 –> 00:00:19,720
On a beaucoup travaillé

7
00:00:19,800 –> 00:00:21,960
pour faire progresser

8
00:00:22,040 –> 00:00:25,480
les questions d’égalité,

9
00:00:25,560 –> 00:00:27,800
malgré d’énormes différences.

10
00:00:28,280 –> 00:00:32,120
Puis pendant une longue période,
on a cru que le problème était résolu.

11
00:00:32,200 –> 00:00:36,880
Les droits des femmes sont
constamment considérés comme sauvés.

12
00:00:37,480 –> 00:00:40,240
C’est ainsi depuis l’Antiquité,

13
00:00:40,320 –> 00:00:43,560
quand les femmes
ont été ramenées chez elles,

14
00:00:43,640 –> 00:00:48,240
après des siècles
à avoir pris part au monde.

15
00:00:48,320 –> 00:00:52,320
On doit se rebeller car on doit

16
00:00:52,400 –> 00:00:53,920
créer le changement.

17
00:00:54,000 –> 00:00:57,320
Tout change dans le monde
et il y a une plus grande

18
00:00:57,400 –> 00:01:00,640
prise de conscience concernant les femmes

19
00:01:00,720 –> 00:01:03,000
et leur manque de visibilité
jusqu’à maintenant.

20
00:01:03,080 –> 00:01:05,600
C’est le moment parfait

21
00:01:05,680 –> 00:01:07,760
pour qu’on s’unisse ensemble,
avec les hommes,

22
00:01:07,840 –> 00:01:12,400
afin de promouvoir
un panorama plus paritaire

23
00:01:12,480 –> 00:01:13,640
dans le milieu de l’architecture.

24
00:01:13,720 –> 00:01:18,640
(FEMMES) ARCHITECTES

25
00:01:18,720 –> 00:01:21,320
Est-ce que vous pouvez
réexpliquer l’évolution

26
00:01:21,400 –> 00:01:24,520
de la femme architecte depuis le début

27
00:01:24,600 –> 00:01:26,720
où vous avez commencé, à nos jours?

28
00:01:26,800 –> 00:01:31,200
Il y a eu une évolution notable

29
00:01:31,280 –> 00:01:33,360
même s’il reste du chemin à parcourir,

30
00:01:34,800 –> 00:01:39,280
par exemple quand j’ai commencé
à étudier, dans ma classe,

31
00:01:39,360 –> 00:01:42,280
où il y avait environ 100 élèves,

32
00:01:42,360 –> 00:01:46,200
il n’y avait que dix femmes
étudiant l’architecture.

33
00:01:46,280 –> 00:01:48,520
Aujourd’hui, on s’approche de la parité.

34
00:01:48,600 –> 00:01:50,640
C’est déjà significatif.

35
00:01:50,720 –> 00:01:52,320
Et dans notre profession,

36
00:01:52,400 –> 00:01:55,200
les femmes architectes qui travaillent

37
00:01:55,280 –> 00:01:56,560
sont plutôt nombreuses,

38
00:01:57,240 –> 00:01:58,680
je ne pourrais pas donner de chiffres

39
00:01:58,760 –> 00:02:00,400
comme je n’ai pas fait

40
00:02:00,480 –> 00:02:02,640
de recherche spécifique sur le sujet,

41
00:02:02,720 –> 00:02:07,320
mais je note
qu’elles participent énormément

42
00:02:07,400 –> 00:02:09,120
à la profession d’architecte.

43
00:02:09,200 –> 00:02:12,120
L’histoire des femmes en architecture

44
00:02:12,200 –> 00:02:14,120
n’est pas très longue,

45
00:02:14,200 –> 00:02:17,000
car nous savons que les femmes ont eu

46
00:02:17,080 –> 00:02:21,960
un accès tardif à l’université et…

47
00:02:22,040 –> 00:02:26,400
c’était une première et,
sans doute, lente étape.

48
00:02:26,480 –> 00:02:29,120
Le second obstacle

49
00:02:29,200 –> 00:02:30,800
que les femmes devaient surpasser,

50
00:02:30,880 –> 00:02:32,920
si elles voulaient être architecte,

51
00:02:33,000 –> 00:02:37,320
était de s’affirmer

52
00:02:37,400 –> 00:02:38,920
dans le milieu du travail,

53
00:02:39,000 –> 00:02:40,560
ainsi,

54
00:02:40,640 –> 00:02:43,360
jusqu’à maintenant, nous avons

55
00:02:43,440 –> 00:02:47,080
une historiographie déficiente

56
00:02:47,160 –> 00:02:50,600
qui ne représente pas la réalité

57
00:02:50,680 –> 00:02:55,800
mais fournit uniquement
un récit grand public.

58
00:03:06,320 –> 00:03:09,040
Encore maintenant, nous avons

59
00:03:09,520 –> 00:03:10,720
l’opportunité

60
00:03:10,800 –> 00:03:12,880
depuis des siècles

61
00:03:12,960 –> 00:03:16,040
que les femmes aient voix au chapitre

62
00:03:16,120 –> 00:03:18,240
et la…

63
00:03:18,320 –> 00:03:22,680
une situation d’une…

64
00:03:23,840 –> 00:03:28,160
d’une domination masculine pour le pouvoir

65
00:03:28,480 –> 00:03:31,920
qui perdure depuis plusieurs siècles.

66
00:03:32,000 –> 00:03:34,000
Maintenant,

67
00:03:34,080 –> 00:03:37,440
il y a une grande discussion

68
00:03:37,960 –> 00:03:39,720
concernant les droits des femmes.

69
00:03:39,800 –> 00:03:43,120
Vous le savez peut-être, aux États-Unis,

70
00:03:43,680 –> 00:03:46,440
nous avons un amendement
pour l’égalité des droits

71
00:03:46,840 –> 00:03:49,880
que nous avons essayé

72
00:03:49,960 –> 00:03:52,160
d’appliquer pour l’ensemble du pays.

73
00:03:52,560 –> 00:03:55,520
De nombreux États l’ont ratifié,
mais pas suffisamment.

74
00:03:55,600 –> 00:03:58,960
C’était dans les années 60
et début des années 70.

75
00:03:59,040 –> 00:04:01,840
Nous nous retrouvons de nouveau
à une période

76
00:04:02,200 –> 00:04:03,800
avec #MeToo

77
00:04:03,880 –> 00:04:08,600
qui a permis…

78
00:04:08,680 –> 00:04:12,280
à un grand nombre de femmes
de prendre la parole contre

79
00:04:12,360 –> 00:04:13,960
les comportements sexuels abusifs.

80
00:04:14,040 –> 00:04:16,680
Je pense que culturellement

81
00:04:16,760 –> 00:04:18,200
les gens écoutent

82
00:04:18,280 –> 00:04:21,240
et ça concerne tellement de disciplines,

83
00:04:21,320 –> 00:04:24,800
et je crois
que ce pouvoir collectif est incroyable.

84
00:04:24,880 –> 00:04:26,200
Et je crois

85
00:04:26,280 –> 00:04:29,840
que l’on doit saisir cette opportunité
dans le milieu de l’architecture

86
00:04:29,920 –> 00:04:35,680
pour forcer notre discipline à agir.

87
00:04:35,760 –> 00:04:38,800
Je pense que le mouvement #MeToo…,

88
00:04:38,880 –> 00:04:40,800
aussi regrettable que cela puisse être,

89
00:04:41,160 –> 00:04:44,400
est une opportunité que l’on doit saisir.

90
00:04:44,480 –> 00:04:45,720
Indiscutablement.

91
00:04:46,280 –> 00:04:50,040
Ça a été un mouvement important,

92
00:04:50,120 –> 00:04:52,560
impliquant et engageant.

93
00:04:52,640 –> 00:04:55,440
Concernant le monde de l’architecture,

94
00:04:55,520 –> 00:04:57,520
il y a quelques noms,

95
00:04:57,920 –> 00:04:59,840
mais c’est très déconcertant.

96
00:04:59,920 –> 00:05:03,720
Mais, en Italie, malheureusement
encore aujourd’hui,

97
00:05:03,800 –> 00:05:06,640
on ne va pas encore
dans la bonne direction.

98
00:05:06,720 –> 00:05:09,800
J’admire énormément
ce que Christine Murray,

99
00:05:09,880 –> 00:05:10,880
en Angleterre, a dit,

100
00:05:10,960 –> 00:05:15,480
en cherchant à introduire des principes
pour dénoncer la discrimination

101
00:05:15,560 –> 00:05:17,960
ou les attitudes inopportunes

102
00:05:18,040 –> 00:05:20,000
qui existent
dans les entreprises italiennes

103
00:05:20,080 –> 00:05:25,080
et je peux moi-même témoigner
en avoir été victime.

104
00:05:25,160 –> 00:05:28,080
Ça a lieu, étant donné la domination
masculine de cet environnement.

105
00:05:28,160 –> 00:05:32,320
Les moments déplaisants
arrivent malheureusement.

106
00:05:32,400 –> 00:05:33,720
Quelque chose doit être fait.

107
00:05:33,800 –> 00:05:35,560
MeToo a démarré quelque chose,

108
00:05:35,640 –> 00:05:37,240
et maintenant on doit progresser,

109
00:05:37,320 –> 00:05:39,240
on doit avancer davantage.

110
00:05:39,320 –> 00:05:43,320
C’est toujours important de nos jours
de se battre pour les droits des femmes?

111
00:05:43,400 –> 00:05:44,360
C’est pas encore fixé ça?

112
00:05:44,440 –> 00:05:49,880
Nous sommes plus de 50 % de femmes
qui étudient dans les universités.

113
00:05:49,960 –> 00:05:54,760
En architecture aussi,
et pas seulement au Portugal.

114
00:05:55,320 –> 00:06:00,080
Nous sommes une part significative
du marché du travail.

115
00:06:01,960 –> 00:06:04,640
On représente actuellement au Portugal

116
00:06:04,720 –> 00:06:10,280
45 % des membres de l’Association
des Architectes du Portugal.

117
00:06:11,280 –> 00:06:15,080
Mais nous sommes complètement invisibles

118
00:06:15,160 –> 00:06:21,080
en tant que coordinatrices de projet,
responsables des ateliers,

119
00:06:21,160 –> 00:06:23,600
en tant que conservatrices.

120
00:06:23,680 –> 00:06:26,280
En tant que… etc, etc.

121
00:06:26,360 –> 00:06:32,640
Ce qui existe est très commun
dans les professions

122
00:06:34,640 –> 00:06:38,320
libérales qui étaient très masculines,

123
00:06:38,680 –> 00:06:41,400
qui ont subi un processus
de « féminisation »,

124
00:06:42,000 –> 00:06:45,840
mais la base de la pyramide est féminine,

125
00:06:45,920 –> 00:06:50,040
et en haut, c’est largement masculin.

126
00:06:50,680 –> 00:06:56,000
Ainsi, oui, pour répondre simplement,

127
00:06:56,360 –> 00:06:58,880
il nous reste beaucoup de combats.

128
00:06:59,280 –> 00:07:02,200
Professionnellement,
concernant la pratique de l’architecture,

129
00:07:02,280 –> 00:07:04,640
dans les universités aussi,

130
00:07:04,720 –> 00:07:10,480
car nous sommes encore une minorité
en tant que professeurs d’architecture,

131
00:07:10,960 –> 00:07:16,720
alors qu’en théorie et en histoire,
nous sommes encore

132
00:07:17,760 –> 00:07:19,640
dans les milieux disciplinaires,

133
00:07:22,160 –> 00:07:26,080
qui sont plus acceptables selon Karam,

134
00:07:26,520 –> 00:07:31,960
bien moins dans les projets
de classes, pour les coordonner,

135
00:07:33,320 –> 00:07:36,280
mais aussi dans les institutions publiques
et au gouvernement.

136
00:07:36,800 –> 00:07:41,000
Il est primordial que le combat…

137
00:07:41,480 –> 00:07:44,080
et en parlant du gouvernement,
je parle de pouvoir politique…

138
00:07:44,160 –> 00:07:47,720
que ce combat des femmes
pour la visibilité,

139
00:07:48,240 –> 00:07:49,840
pour leurs droits…

140
00:07:52,000 –> 00:07:54,560
ne les exclue pas
parce qu’elles sont des femmes.

141
00:07:55,360 –> 00:07:59,600
Et aussi, qu’elles peuvent façonner
le type d’architecte

142
00:07:59,680 –> 00:08:01,920
qu’elles considèrent adéquat.

143
00:08:02,560 –> 00:08:05,760
Car un autre problème
au sein de l’architecture

144
00:08:06,040 –> 00:08:09,120
vient du fait qu’il y a un système
très centré

145
00:08:10,000 –> 00:08:12,080
sur une idée « d’architectes stars »

146
00:08:12,560 –> 00:08:16,960
et ces stars de l’architecture sont…

147
00:08:18,360 –> 00:08:20,360
des modèles très oppressifs,

148
00:08:21,200 –> 00:08:26,680
contraignant et délimitant
ce que nous croyons pouvoir être

149
00:08:26,760 –> 00:08:28,200
en tant qu’architectes.

150
00:08:28,280 –> 00:08:32,760
Je crois qu’il y a plusieurs raisons
expliquant ce phénomène.

151
00:08:32,840 –> 00:08:34,760
La raison généralement mentionnée

152
00:08:34,840 –> 00:08:36,760
est l’engagement familial

153
00:08:36,840 –> 00:08:37,960
que les femmes ont

154
00:08:38,040 –> 00:08:41,960
et qui rattrape les femmes
après l’université,

155
00:08:42,040 –> 00:08:46,360
mais il y a probablement
d’autres facteurs.

156
00:08:46,440 –> 00:08:48,360
Je crois que pour les femmes,
c’est difficile

157
00:08:48,440 –> 00:08:53,680
d’accéder au milieu du travail.

158
00:08:53,760 –> 00:08:55,680
C’est plus difficile pour elles

159
00:08:55,760 –> 00:08:58,600
de se présenter en public.

160
00:08:58,680 –> 00:09:03,760
Elles ont généralement
un soutien financier moins solide.

161
00:09:03,840 –> 00:09:05,760
Ainsi souvent,

162
00:09:05,840 –> 00:09:09,280
elles ne peuvent pas ouvrir
leur propre bureau

163
00:09:09,360 –> 00:09:12,520
et il y a

164
00:09:12,600 –> 00:09:16,040
un modèle à suivre traditionnel

165
00:09:16,120 –> 00:09:18,960
par exemple, pour les relations,

166
00:09:19,040 –> 00:09:21,760
au sein des partenariats professionnels,

167
00:09:21,840 –> 00:09:23,680
où souvent l’homme

168
00:09:23,760 –> 00:09:26,600
est en charge des relations publiques.

169
00:09:26,680 –> 00:09:31,120
Je pense que le rôle
des références est important.

170
00:09:31,200 –> 00:09:36,400
C’est-à-dire de montrer qu’effectivement
les femmes ont investi

171
00:09:36,480 –> 00:09:40,240
les pratiques des métiers d’architecture,
elles ont réussi

172
00:09:40,320 –> 00:09:41,800
dans ces exercices-là.

173
00:09:41,880 –> 00:09:45,200
Donc notamment, par exemple
dans les écoles d’architecture,

174
00:09:45,280 –> 00:09:47,560
comment dire…

175
00:09:47,640 –> 00:09:51,080
en faisant en sorte que les femmes
enseignent davantage le projet,

176
00:09:51,160 –> 00:09:54,400
qu’on ait des références plus féminines.

177
00:09:55,000 –> 00:09:58,120
Je pense qu’il faut voir cette question
dans un cadre

178
00:09:58,200 –> 00:10:00,240
beaucoup, beaucoup plus grand.

179
00:10:01,640 –> 00:10:04,160
Je pense que la petite fille

180
00:10:04,240 –> 00:10:07,400
qui se retrouve dans un magasin de jouets

181
00:10:07,920 –> 00:10:10,000
face à des millions de Barbie

182
00:10:10,480 –> 00:10:11,880
doit déjà se battre.

183
00:10:11,960 –> 00:10:13,720
Je pense que la petite fille

184
00:10:13,800 –> 00:10:17,920
de qui on attend qu’elle soit

185
00:10:18,920 –> 00:10:20,160
douce et soumise

186
00:10:20,240 –> 00:10:21,720
doit déjà se battre.

187
00:10:21,800 –> 00:10:24,680
Je pense que la petite fille

188
00:10:24,760 –> 00:10:28,800
qui est obligée d’apprendre par cœur

189
00:10:28,880 –> 00:10:32,200
la règle du masculin qui l’emporte
sur le féminin à l’école

190
00:10:32,280 –> 00:10:34,120
et qui reçoit des mauvais points

191
00:10:35,920 –> 00:10:39,440
si elle ne répond pas correctement

192
00:10:40,360 –> 00:10:43,720
à cette règle,
si elle ne l’applique pas correctement,

193
00:10:44,280 –> 00:10:47,400
je pense que cette petite fille-là,
elle doit déjà se battre.

194
00:10:47,480 –> 00:10:50,080
L’histoire de l’architecture contemporaine

195
00:10:50,160 –> 00:10:52,280
est une histoire qui reste

196
00:10:52,360 –> 00:10:55,640
en prévalence, une histoire masculine.

197
00:10:55,720 –> 00:10:59,440
Qui voit des grands noms,

198
00:10:59,520 –> 00:11:01,560
grands maîtres

199
00:11:03,320 –> 00:11:04,800
de l’architecture,

200
00:11:05,240 –> 00:11:08,480
mais pas des femmes.

201
00:11:08,560 –> 00:11:12,200
La plupart des biographes
sur Wikipédia sont des hommes

202
00:11:12,280 –> 00:11:17,080
et ils écrivent surtout
des biographies sur des hommes.

203
00:11:17,160 –> 00:11:19,480
Il y a différents mouvements

204
00:11:19,560 –> 00:11:21,720
et différentes façons qui vous prouveront

205
00:11:21,800 –> 00:11:24,000
que les femmes ont été occultées.

206
00:11:26,240 –> 00:11:27,800
Toutes les femmes doivent se battre

207
00:11:28,560 –> 00:11:31,600
à cause de cette règle
de domination masculine

208
00:11:31,680 –> 00:11:35,400
qui entraîne quelques petits soucis
sur chantiers.

209
00:11:35,760 –> 00:11:37,120
On nous siffle sur chantier

210
00:11:37,200 –> 00:11:39,960
ou bien, on me rit au nez
quand je demande un contrat

211
00:11:40,040 –> 00:11:41,840
écrit en neutralité du genre.

212
00:11:41,920 –> 00:11:45,080
Mais, bien plus important que ça,

213
00:11:45,360 –> 00:11:48,360
cette question de la domination masculine

214
00:11:48,440 –> 00:11:52,000
qui est ancrée dans nos sociétés

215
00:11:52,280 –> 00:11:54,560
depuis des millénaires

216
00:11:54,640 –> 00:11:57,080
entraîne la violence faite aux femmes.

217
00:11:57,360 –> 00:11:59,200
C’est quoi que j’ai lu en France?

218
00:11:59,720 –> 00:12:03,320
Tous les trois jours, une femme meurt
en France sous les coups de son conjoint.

219
00:12:04,120 –> 00:12:07,880
Ça entraîne…
Malala, le non-accès à l’éducation.

220
00:12:07,960 –> 00:12:09,040
Ça entraîne…

221
00:12:09,120 –> 00:12:11,600
le viol, l’esclavage etc.

222
00:12:11,960 –> 00:12:13,960
Le but n’est pas du tout d’être

223
00:12:14,240 –> 00:12:16,080
déprimé pendant cette interview.

224
00:12:16,160 –> 00:12:18,080
Mais c’est quand même de ça qu’on parle.

225
00:12:18,160 –> 00:12:20,400
Donc la condition de la femme architecte,

226
00:12:21,000 –> 00:12:23,120
je pense qu’elle a peu d’intérêt
par rapport à cela.

227
00:12:23,200 –> 00:12:26,360
Elle est symptomatique
de quelque chose de beaucoup plus lourd.

228
00:12:27,080 –> 00:12:31,080
Nous n’avons pas assez de présence
dans l’histoire.

229
00:12:31,160 –> 00:12:32,760
Nous n’avons pas assez de présence
en théorie.

230
00:12:32,840 –> 00:12:35,640
Nous n’avons pas assez de présence
en pratique.

231
00:12:35,720 –> 00:12:38,240
De nombreuses femmes se lancent

232
00:12:38,320 –> 00:12:40,440
dans un apprentissage de l’architecture

233
00:12:40,520 –> 00:12:42,920
mais il y a un énorme taux de décrochage.

234
00:12:43,000 –> 00:12:46,160
Notre mission est de fournir

235
00:12:46,240 –> 00:12:48,920
du soutien, des contacts

236
00:12:49,000 –> 00:12:52,720
et une opportunité de se faire entendre,
de créer une plateforme

237
00:12:52,800 –> 00:12:55,360
pour que le public sache ce que l’on fait

238
00:12:55,440 –> 00:12:56,680
et pourquoi c’est important

239
00:12:56,760 –> 00:13:00,320
d’avoir un architecte qui participe
aux projets de construction.

240
00:13:00,400 –> 00:13:01,280
Quand je vois :

241
00:13:01,360 –> 00:13:04,800
« Cherche directeur »,

242
00:13:05,720 –> 00:13:09,200
entre parenthèses, slash femme,

243
00:13:10,440 –> 00:13:12,840
personne ne hurle à la discrimination.

244
00:13:13,280 –> 00:13:15,880
Quand je vois une pub passer pour
l’un des architectes où c’est marqué :

245
00:13:15,960 –> 00:13:18,320
« Seul un architecte peut
en faire autant pour vous »,

246
00:13:19,240 –> 00:13:21,400
je repense à la petite fille

247
00:13:21,760 –> 00:13:25,760
à qui on impose cette règle du masculin
qui l’emporte sur le féminin.

248
00:13:26,120 –> 00:13:30,440
Les gens ne veulent pas voir
qu’il y a une forme de domination

249
00:13:30,520 –> 00:13:32,280
qui mène à une violence dont j’ai parlé.

250
00:13:32,360 –> 00:13:35,560
Je pense que le seul intérêt
de cette interview

251
00:13:35,640 –> 00:13:39,240
c’est d’inviter de façon bienveillante

252
00:13:39,800 –> 00:13:40,960
hommes et femmes

253
00:13:41,320 –> 00:13:42,760
à voir cette question.

254
00:13:43,400 –> 00:13:45,280
Le sujet de ma thèse

255
00:13:45,360 –> 00:13:49,240
était sur la médaille d’or royale
du Royal Institute of British Architects.

256
00:13:49,320 –> 00:13:52,600
C’est une médaille qui était donnée
à quelqu’un

257
00:13:52,680 –> 00:13:54,920
qui a influencé le milieu
de l’architecture.

258
00:13:55,000 –> 00:13:58,960
Ça a commencé en 1848, au XIXe siècle,
et ça continue encore aujourd’hui.

259
00:13:59,040 –> 00:14:02,240
Avant que je ne m’y intéresse,
il n’y a eu aucune recherche

260
00:14:02,320 –> 00:14:03,880
sur la médaille, de façon générale.

261
00:14:03,960 –> 00:14:07,880
Une autre chose, c’est qu’elle s’appelle
la médaille d’or royale

262
00:14:07,960 –> 00:14:10,160
mais elle n’est plus faite en or.

263
00:14:11,560 –> 00:14:14,520
Puis j’ai consacré un chapitre de ma thèse

264
00:14:14,600 –> 00:14:16,520
aux statistiques.

265
00:14:16,600 –> 00:14:21,120
De ces statistiques, j’ai découvert
que la majorité des décorés sont blancs,

266
00:14:21,200 –> 00:14:22,320
masculins,

267
00:14:22,400 –> 00:14:25,440
et ils travaillent
dans des cabinets d’architecture.

268
00:14:25,520 –> 00:14:28,320
Et ils ont la soixantaine.

269
00:14:28,400 –> 00:14:31,760
Cela m’a amenée à faire
des recherches concernant

270
00:14:32,160 –> 00:14:35,280
l’idée contraire, pour le dire ainsi.

271
00:14:35,360 –> 00:14:38,640
Pourquoi des femmes
ne gagnent pas cette médaille?

272
00:14:38,720 –> 00:14:41,000
Avec les deux extrêmes,

273
00:14:41,080 –> 00:14:45,120
nous avons le plus jeune à 45 ans,
le plus âgé à 99 ans.

274
00:14:45,200 –> 00:14:47,280
Ce sont les deux extrêmes.

275
00:14:47,360 –> 00:14:50,720
Et j’ai regardé
les récipiendaires non blancs.

276
00:14:50,800 –> 00:14:52,960
Pourquoi ils n’ont pas obtenu
cette médaille?

277
00:14:53,040 –> 00:14:55,440
Jusqu’en 2016,

278
00:14:55,520 –> 00:14:58,560
aucune femme n’a gagné la médaille seule.

279
00:14:58,640 –> 00:14:59,920
Elles l’ont gagnée en partenariat

280
00:15:00,000 –> 00:15:01,760
avec leur mari car la règle a été changée.

281
00:15:01,840 –> 00:15:04,760
La médaille a été créée en 1848,

282
00:15:04,840 –> 00:15:06,160
elle était destinée à une seule personne,

283
00:15:06,240 –> 00:15:10,000
un individu influençant l’architecture.
Ça peut être un architecte.

284
00:15:10,080 –> 00:15:14,520
83 % sont des architectes, les autres
sont auteurs, journalistes, ingénieurs.

285
00:15:14,600 –> 00:15:18,440
En 1966, ils ont changé la règle

286
00:15:18,520 –> 00:15:21,000
pour accepter
les partenariats d’architectes.

287
00:15:21,080 –> 00:15:24,040
Le premier partenariat
qui a gagné est Powell et Moya.

288
00:15:24,120 –> 00:15:26,880
Ils étaient des architectes modernistes
travaillant à Londres.

289
00:15:26,960 –> 00:15:31,960
Le premier partenariat avec une femme
fut Ray et Charles Eames.

290
00:15:33,240 –> 00:15:36,600
Et désormais,
les choses ont-elles changé ?

291
00:15:36,680 –> 00:15:39,400
Oui car Zaha Hadid a été la première femme

292
00:15:39,480 –> 00:15:42,480
à la médaille d’or seule

293
00:15:42,760 –> 00:15:44,480
en 2016.

294
00:15:44,560 –> 00:15:47,440
Cela a évidemment changé
les proportions des statistiques.

295
00:15:47,520 –> 00:15:50,280
En travaillant sur la médaille d’or
du RIBA,

296
00:15:50,360 –> 00:15:52,920
j’ai décidé de regarder les statistiques

297
00:15:53,000 –> 00:15:55,640
des cinq prix les plus prestigieux
en architecture.

298
00:15:55,720 –> 00:15:56,880
Ce sont pour les individus.

299
00:15:56,960 –> 00:16:00,840
Donc le RIBA,
l’American Institute of Architects, l’AIA,

300
00:16:00,920 –> 00:16:05,320
l’UIA,
l’European Institute of Architecture,

301
00:16:05,400 –> 00:16:06,880
le prix Pritzker,

302
00:16:06,960 –> 00:16:09,600
et le Praemium Imperiale, au Japon.

303
00:16:09,680 –> 00:16:12,680
Tout cela a élargi
le champ d’informations.

304
00:16:12,760 –> 00:16:16,760
J’ai découvert que…
Zaha Hadid a aussi gagné le prix Pritzker.

305
00:16:16,840 –> 00:16:18,920
Elle a aussi gagné le Praemium Imperiale.

306
00:16:19,000 –> 00:16:22,840
Une autre architecte a gagné
le prix Pritzker avec un partenariat.

307
00:16:22,920 –> 00:16:26,160
Et la médaille d’or de l’AIA a été gagnée

308
00:16:26,240 –> 00:16:28,800
par une femme en 2014

309
00:16:28,880 –> 00:16:33,640
et également par Venturi et Scott Brown,
un partenariat homme-femme

310
00:16:33,720 –> 00:16:35,880
en 2016.

311
00:16:46,200 –> 00:16:50,280
Ce que mes élèves, femmes et hommes,
répondent en classe

312
00:16:50,360 –> 00:16:55,040
quand je leur demande s’ils connaissent
des femmes architectes,

313
00:16:55,120 –> 00:16:59,440
leurs réponses sont
très décourageantes et déprimantes

314
00:16:59,960 –> 00:17:02,520
car au final,

315
00:17:03,560 –> 00:17:06,440
ils parlent de la Brésilienne
Lina Bo Bardi

316
00:17:06,520 –> 00:17:08,320
ou Zaha Hadid.

317
00:17:08,720 –> 00:17:12,280
Je dirais Zaha Hadid car elle est morte.

318
00:17:12,880 –> 00:17:17,080
Quand elle est morte,
elle a gagné en visibilité.

319
00:17:17,600 –> 00:17:22,480
Et Lina Bo Bardi car il y a
beaucoup d’étudiants brésiliens ;

320
00:17:22,920 –> 00:17:27,160
ainsi ils apportent
une certaine culture architecturale…

321
00:17:28,880 –> 00:17:30,160
je dirais, peut-être,

322
00:17:30,960 –> 00:17:33,200
plus mature et donc plus consciente

323
00:17:33,280 –> 00:17:36,080
de qui était Lina Bo Bardi.

324
00:17:36,400 –> 00:17:38,760
Mais… c’est tout.

325
00:17:39,480 –> 00:17:44,080
Voilà les seuls retours
que l’on peut avoir

326
00:17:44,160 –> 00:17:47,200
des étudiants, hommes
et femmes, ce qui signifie que,

327
00:17:48,160 –> 00:17:51,480
dans l’imaginaire architectural

328
00:17:52,480 –> 00:17:56,320
de ceux entrant à l’université pour
devenir architecte, hommes comme femmes,

329
00:17:58,280 –> 00:18:00,400
les femmes architectes n’existent pas.

330
00:18:00,480 –> 00:18:02,120
Dans notre université

331
00:18:02,200 –> 00:18:04,640
et la majorité des universités

332
00:18:04,720 –> 00:18:07,320
et cours en architecture,

333
00:18:07,400 –> 00:18:10,640
il n’y a pas de cours de genre.

334
00:18:11,080 –> 00:18:14,400
J’ai étudié à la fin des années 80,
début des années 90.

335
00:18:14,480 –> 00:18:18,080
J’étais souvent la seule étudiante
dans mon studio de design.

336
00:18:18,160 –> 00:18:19,160
Et…

337
00:18:20,200 –> 00:18:21,640
J’étais dans une école technique.

338
00:18:21,720 –> 00:18:25,880
Ça ne me semblait donc pas anormal

339
00:18:25,960 –> 00:18:28,160
d’avoir si peu d’étudiantes.

340
00:18:28,240 –> 00:18:30,160
Puis j’ai fait mes études universitaires

341
00:18:30,240 –> 00:18:31,640
où l’effectif était paritaire.

342
00:18:31,720 –> 00:18:33,760
Ils trouvaient important de nous dire :

343
00:18:33,840 –> 00:18:38,040
« Vous êtes la première classe
avec une parité parfaite. »

344
00:18:38,880 –> 00:18:40,680
Alors j’ai commencé à me dire :

345
00:18:40,760 –> 00:18:42,560
« C’est visiblement un problème. »

346
00:18:42,640 –> 00:18:44,440
Et quand j’ai commencé à travailler

347
00:18:44,520 –> 00:18:49,000
à New York, c’est devenu évident
que les femmes n’ont pas

348
00:18:49,080 –> 00:18:51,480
le même potentiel de direction
ou d’opportunités

349
00:18:51,560 –> 00:18:53,680
que mes collègues masculins.

350
00:18:53,760 –> 00:18:57,880
Et mes collègues plus âgés
étaient presque tous des hommes.

351
00:18:58,280 –> 00:19:01,040
C’est là que ça a commencé pour moi,

352
00:19:01,120 –> 00:19:05,520
j’ai commencé à regarder de près
l’histoire de la femme en architecture.

353
00:19:05,600 –> 00:19:07,720
En regardant les années 70,

354
00:19:07,800 –> 00:19:10,920
j’ai compris qu’il y a eu
ces mouvements de femmes

355
00:19:11,000 –> 00:19:12,960
aux États-Unis et à l’étranger

356
00:19:13,040 –> 00:19:17,040
pour sensibiliser, se faire entendre
et être payées de façon égalitaire.

357
00:19:17,120 –> 00:19:18,320
Cela…

358
00:19:18,720 –> 00:19:21,280
Tout cela a eu lieu
il y a plusieurs décennies

359
00:19:21,360 –> 00:19:25,240
mais nous sommes clairement à une période
où il y a une énorme

360
00:19:25,320 –> 00:19:26,880
prise de conscience globale

361
00:19:26,960 –> 00:19:29,160
et de l’énergie autour de ces questions.

362
00:19:29,240 –> 00:19:30,120
Je pense que…

363
00:19:30,200 –> 00:19:32,440
J’ignore si c’est bien ou mal
de dire que c’est cool

364
00:19:32,520 –> 00:19:37,120
mais nous sommes dans un moment
de l’histoire plein d’énergie.

365
00:19:37,200 –> 00:19:39,240
Ça me semble

366
00:19:39,320 –> 00:19:42,360
différent, au moins en théorie,
de ce qu’on a connu par le passé.

367
00:19:42,440 –> 00:19:43,960
Je ne sais pas si c’est vrai

368
00:19:44,040 –> 00:19:48,400
mais je crois que la portée mondiale
est ce qui rend tout ça si puissant.

369
00:19:48,480 –> 00:19:51,000
Le potentiel de travailler ensemble
au travers

370
00:19:51,080 –> 00:19:55,560
de notre propre pays,
ça a tant de potentiel.

371
00:19:56,680 –> 00:19:59,080
En tant que professeur, homme ou femme,

372
00:20:00,640 –> 00:20:04,360
en tant qu’activiste,
il est primordial d’amplifier

373
00:20:05,440 –> 00:20:08,640
autant que possible les modèles.

374
00:20:09,000 –> 00:20:12,600
Car la réduction absurde de ce modèle

375
00:20:12,680 –> 00:20:15,480
d’architecte star, blanc,

376
00:20:15,800 –> 00:20:18,280
masculin, riche,

377
00:20:19,280 –> 00:20:20,880
occidental,

378
00:20:21,280 –> 00:20:23,720
met de côté un grand éventail

379
00:20:25,200 –> 00:20:29,040
de diversité et de possibilités
pour être architecte.

380
00:20:29,120 –> 00:20:33,000
Je crois qu’il y a des structures
culturelles, sociales et politiques

381
00:20:33,320 –> 00:20:35,320
qui sont si profondément

382
00:20:35,640 –> 00:20:38,840
incrustées dans notre discipline.

383
00:20:38,920 –> 00:20:41,920
Je crois que c’est en partie la discipline
et en partie sociétal.

384
00:20:42,000 –> 00:20:45,720
Il est clair que d’autres disciplines
ont fait un meilleur travail

385
00:20:45,800 –> 00:20:48,840
pour créer plus de parité.

386
00:20:48,920 –> 00:20:51,480
Mais l’architecture s’est beaucoup entêtée

387
00:20:51,560 –> 00:20:54,760
et a refusé de s’y intéresser.

388
00:20:54,840 –> 00:20:57,160
Ce n’est pas à propos des femmes,

389
00:20:57,240 –> 00:20:59,040
et je déteste quand les gens disent :

390
00:20:59,120 –> 00:21:00,880
« Oh, vous ne faites pas assez d’efforts. »

391
00:21:00,960 –> 00:21:04,120
« Vous ne vous mettez pas assez en avant. »

392
00:21:04,440 –> 00:21:07,000
Non, il y a des problèmes institutionnels,

393
00:21:07,080 –> 00:21:10,560
des structures qui ont rendu très…

394
00:21:10,880 –> 00:21:12,960
qui ont favorisé
les hommes et non les femmes.

395
00:21:13,040 –> 00:21:17,000
Et tant que l’on n’aura pas plus de femmes
notamment aux postes de direction,

396
00:21:17,080 –> 00:21:21,120
dirigeant des écoles
ou à des niveaux significatifs,

397
00:21:21,200 –> 00:21:24,040
dans les jurys de récompenses,

398
00:21:24,400 –> 00:21:25,680
les choses ne changeront pas.

399
00:21:25,760 –> 00:21:29,120
Je crois qu’il s’agit à la fois
d’une approche ascendante et descendante

400
00:21:29,200 –> 00:21:30,520
et…

401
00:21:32,480 –> 00:21:36,240
Je crois que l’ascension est
ce qui créera le changement

402
00:21:36,320 –> 00:21:37,640
car il est clair…

403
00:21:37,720 –> 00:21:41,160
Je crois que… Ça fait plus d’un siècle,

404
00:21:41,240 –> 00:21:45,600
du moins aux États-Unis,
que les femmes ont fait des progrès

405
00:21:45,680 –> 00:21:47,920
mais tout ça a été si lent.

406
00:21:48,000 –> 00:21:50,960
Ce sont les structures qui doivent changer

407
00:21:51,040 –> 00:21:54,960
et l’attitude de ceux qui dirigent
qui doit évoluer.

408
00:21:55,440 –> 00:21:57,720
Ainsi, il y aura plus de parité.

409
00:21:57,800 –> 00:22:01,840
Il y aura de la parité,
pas plus de parité, entre les genres.

410
00:22:01,920 –> 00:22:05,880
Désormais, on le sait et on peut pousser
dans la même direction.

411
00:22:05,960 –> 00:22:08,680
Quand quelqu’un…

412
00:22:08,760 –> 00:22:13,560
Des gens disent que les femmes
ne se mettent pas assez en avant.

413
00:22:14,080 –> 00:22:17,680
Le problème est un problème de timing.

414
00:22:17,760 –> 00:22:20,560
Si vous devez gérer votre famille
et votre travail.

415
00:22:20,640 –> 00:22:23,160
Tu es une architecte, une féministe

416
00:22:23,240 –> 00:22:26,720
et mère de famille également.
C’est important ce rôle de mère?

417
00:22:27,960 –> 00:22:30,880
Je crois que le fait

418
00:22:31,600 –> 00:22:34,560
d’être mère ne fait

419
00:22:34,640 –> 00:22:38,560
qu’ajouter plus de complexité,

420
00:22:39,960 –> 00:22:43,800
de richesse, parfois de difficulté,
au rôle de femme.

421
00:22:46,640 –> 00:22:49,520
Cela n’ajoute ou ne retire rien,

422
00:22:51,200 –> 00:22:55,520
mais ça apporte une perception en plus,

423
00:22:56,600 –> 00:23:01,160
y compris les problèmes d’inégalités.

424
00:23:01,560 –> 00:23:05,800
C’est encore difficile de nos jours
d’être une mère et une architecte?

425
00:23:05,880 –> 00:23:09,280
Actuellement je ne travaille pas
comme architecte…

426
00:23:10,840 –> 00:23:12,520
en tant que profession libérale.

427
00:23:14,800 –> 00:23:16,000
Cela veut dire que…

428
00:23:18,000 –> 00:23:20,400
ma perception…

429
00:23:20,480 –> 00:23:23,200
selon les données portugaises,

430
00:23:23,480 –> 00:23:29,800
est qu’il y a un vrai abandon des femmes
pour la profession libérale,

431
00:23:30,480 –> 00:23:33,600
pour la pratique de l’architecture,

432
00:23:34,200 –> 00:23:40,120
quand vient le moment de choisir
la maternité et la famille.

433
00:23:40,440 –> 00:23:44,560
Est-ce que tu aurais un message à donner
aux architectes

434
00:23:44,640 –> 00:23:47,800
ou étudiantes d’architecture
qui regarderaient ce film ?

435
00:23:53,160 –> 00:23:54,800
Nous ne sommes pas seules.

436
00:23:55,240 –> 00:23:56,840
Nous sommes nombreuses.

437
00:23:57,960 –> 00:24:02,000
Nous faisons face
à une prise de conscience importante

438
00:24:03,040 –> 00:24:07,440
des inégalités, de l’invisibilisation
dont on est victimes.

439
00:24:07,840 –> 00:24:08,840
Et…

440
00:24:10,560 –> 00:24:14,240
je crois que c’est
une époque de changement,

441
00:24:15,120 –> 00:24:18,160
mais ce changement ne nous est pas offert,

442
00:24:18,400 –> 00:24:21,640
c’est un changement
pour lequel la lutte est primordiale,

443
00:24:21,720 –> 00:24:25,840
continuer à se battre
voire intensifier notre lutte

444
00:24:25,920 –> 00:24:29,960
pour le droit d’être les architectes
que nous voulons être.