The firm MMBB in São Paulo is run by Marta Moreira and Milton Braga. They describe their architecture as ‘very Brazilian’ in the sense that it is highly attuned to the condition of a developing country. They define their aim as ‘a building that makes people happy’. There is always an intention behind their studies, whether they are working for their own firm or in partnership with Paulo Mendes Da Rocha, with whom they have conceived many projects.

MMBB : Portrait of Marta Moreira and Milton Braga

http://www.mmbb.com.br
mmbb@mmbb.com.br

Technical sheet of this architecture video clip
Journalist : Emma C. Dessouroux
Cameraman : Mister Emma

Editing : Cristina Dias
Direction : Emma C. Dessouroux
Production : Les Délires Productions

Translation : Strakermedia
Rereading : Serge Ryckoort / Emelire
Subtitles : Strakermedia

Portuguese Subtitles

1
00:00:12,920 –> 00:00:16,000
Eu escolhi a arquitetura,
estudar arquitetura.

2
00:00:16,080 –> 00:00:18,720
Eu tenho que confessar
que não sei bem o porquê.

3
00:00:19,480 –> 00:00:22,240
Eu me interessava muito

4
00:00:22,320 –> 00:00:25,960
por uma questão da cidade principalmente.

5
00:00:26,040 –> 00:00:29,880
Então isso me atraía,
poder entender melhor as dinâmicas

6
00:00:29,960 –> 00:00:32,080
que se estabeleciam na cidade.

7
00:00:32,640 –> 00:00:36,480
E aí fui buscar a arquitetura
como um caminho

8
00:00:36,560 –> 00:00:38,840
pra chegar nessas questões.

9
00:00:42,240 –> 00:00:48,160
Sou filho de um engenheiro de projetos
de engenharia consultiva

10
00:00:48,240 –> 00:00:53,040
e desde pequeno com meu pai
desenvolvendo projetos,

11
00:00:53,120 –> 00:00:55,760
apontava pra mim e falava:
« Esse aqui vai ser arquiteto.

12
00:00:55,840 –> 00:00:57,480
Ele desenha bem e tal. »

13
00:00:57,560 –> 00:00:59,960
E acho que o que mais
me interessa na arquitetura

14
00:01:00,040 –> 00:01:04,080
é essa necessidade de uma abordagem,

15
00:01:04,160 –> 00:01:07,480
portanto um conhecimento generalista
dos problemas,

16
00:01:07,560 –> 00:01:10,200
porque os problemas são resolvidos
no caso da arquitetura

17
00:01:10,280 –> 00:01:12,520
que tem muita complexidade e escala,

18
00:01:13,240 –> 00:01:19,160
considerando-se vários aspectos,
o econômico, o construtivo, o técnico

19
00:01:20,080 –> 00:01:26,160
e principalmente os aspectos simbólicos,
metafóricos do que significa

20
00:01:26,440 –> 00:01:29,560
aquilo que a gente chama
de autoria da arquitetura

21
00:01:29,640 –> 00:01:32,320
que é o juízo que cada arquiteto
tem que fazer

22
00:01:33,800 –> 00:01:36,400
pra adotar a direção
que quer para cada projeto.

23
00:01:36,480 –> 00:01:38,520
Fazer isso e não fazer todo o resto.

24
00:01:44,240 –> 00:01:47,520
Nós atualmente
somos dois sócios principais,

25
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mas o MMBB começou com quatro sócios,

26
00:01:50,920 –> 00:01:53,960
os dois sócios principais
somos eu e a Marta Moreira

27
00:01:54,040 –> 00:01:58,080
e pelo fato de sermos alguns sócios,
não apenas um sócio

28
00:01:58,160 –> 00:02:00,560
dentre os mais velhos dos fundadores,

29
00:02:01,120 –> 00:02:07,200
a gente sempre definiu que um de nós
seria o responsável por um projeto.

30
00:02:07,280 –> 00:02:13,000
Isso não significa que esse será o autor,
aquele que dirá como será o projeto,

31
00:02:13,080 –> 00:02:18,200
porque fazemos a concepção
quase sempre conversando bastante,

32
00:02:18,280 –> 00:02:21,000
inclusive com todos
os arquitetos do escritório.

33
00:02:21,080 –> 00:02:24,440
Mas esse que é o responsável
é aquele que decide.

34
00:02:26,880 –> 00:02:31,040
-Porque talvez a espera possa ser…
-Como descrever a arquitetura do MMBB?

35
00:02:31,120 –> 00:02:34,560
Eu acho que a gente tem
uma experiência e um interesse

36
00:02:34,640 –> 00:02:40,280
muito voltado pras questões
mais relativas ao desenho urbano.

37
00:02:40,360 –> 00:02:44,560
A gente sempre teve
um interesse muito ligado a isso.

38
00:02:44,960 –> 00:02:50,280
Acho que a arquitetura que fazemos no MMBB
é uma arquitetura bastante brasileira

39
00:02:50,920 –> 00:02:53,160
no sentido de que…

40
00:02:54,560 –> 00:02:57,520
está muito atenta a nossa condição,

41
00:02:57,600 –> 00:03:00,480
à condição brasileira,
à condição de um país em desenvolvimento.

42
00:03:00,560 –> 00:03:05,320
Eu acho que fazer arquitetura
na cidade de São Paulo ou talvez no Brasil

43
00:03:05,400 –> 00:03:07,760
não é uma tarefa muito simples.

44
00:03:08,360 –> 00:03:10,000
Acho que isso vem talvez

45
00:03:10,080 –> 00:03:13,640
por uma certa falta de prestígio
da própria profissão.

46
00:03:13,720 –> 00:03:17,280
Às vezes é muito difícil
que se considere o arquiteto

47
00:03:17,360 –> 00:03:22,880
como um dos profissionais que fazem parte
de uma grande equipe multidisciplinar

48
00:03:22,960 –> 00:03:26,480
que vão resolver
um grande problema infraestrutural.

49
00:03:26,920 –> 00:03:31,880
Então acho que existe um pouco
essa dificuldade de a gente se inserir

50
00:03:32,360 –> 00:03:36,160
nessa escala de intervenções
que nos interessa muito.

51
00:03:42,320 –> 00:03:46,160
Nós aqui no escritório, trabalhamos
com as várias ferramentas

52
00:03:46,240 –> 00:03:49,200
que hoje estão à disposição
do trabalho arquitetônico,

53
00:03:49,280 –> 00:03:51,760
mas desenhamos muito à mão.

54
00:03:51,840 –> 00:03:56,200
Talvez seja algo que esteja diminuindo
nas gerações mais novas.

55
00:03:56,600 –> 00:03:59,680
E fazemos sempre a concepção
de desenhos à mão,

56
00:03:59,760 –> 00:04:03,640
desenhos arquitetônicos,
ou seja, desenhos feitos

57
00:04:03,720 –> 00:04:06,080
sem nenhum instrumento
para termos agilidade,

58
00:04:06,160 –> 00:04:08,480
como plantas, cortes e elevações.

59
00:04:08,560 –> 00:04:14,000
Depois de desenhado à mão,
quase sempre concebemos em CAD

60
00:04:14,320 –> 00:04:18,560
que são desenhos ainda muito esquemáticos

61
00:04:18,640 –> 00:04:21,320
por tanto ainda ágeis
pra depois passar pro BIM

62
00:04:21,400 –> 00:04:25,400
onde se faz os modelos eletrônicos.

63
00:04:25,480 –> 00:04:30,280
A partir desses modelos,
consegue-se as várias representações

64
00:04:30,360 –> 00:04:32,080
da arquitetura, desenhos, listas, etc.

65
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Fazemos obviamente muitos modelos
para perspectivas eletrônicas,

66
00:04:36,880 –> 00:04:41,040
para visualização
e alguns modelos físicos.

67
00:04:41,120 –> 00:04:43,160
Particularmente, acho que cabe destacar

68
00:04:43,240 –> 00:04:46,000
que seguindo a tradição paulista,

69
00:04:46,080 –> 00:04:50,360
inaugurada pelo Paulo Mendes da Rocha,
talvez pelo Vilanova Artigas,

70
00:04:50,440 –> 00:04:53,800
usamos muito a lousa, o quadro negro

71
00:04:53,880 –> 00:04:58,520
para fazer desenhos à mão,
estudos em reuniões de trabalho.

72
00:04:58,600 –> 00:05:01,640
em que todo mundo olha
um desenho grande feito na parede.

73
00:05:04,920 –> 00:05:08,720
A gente não tem predileção,
digamos, por um material.

74
00:05:09,400 –> 00:05:15,000
Em geral, a gente gosta
dos materiais mais tecnológicos.

75
00:05:15,080 –> 00:05:18,720
Embora a cadeia produtiva brasileira
não seja muito sofisticada,

76
00:05:18,800 –> 00:05:22,440
muito rica em alta tecnologia.

77
00:05:22,520 –> 00:05:25,960
Mas esses materiais
que chamei de mais tecnológicos

78
00:05:26,040 –> 00:05:30,040
quase sempre podem ser
industrializados, pré-produzidos,

79
00:05:30,120 –> 00:05:32,960
não produzidos apenas no canteiro.

80
00:05:33,040 –> 00:05:38,640
Isso se deve ao fato da nossa mão de obra
no Brasil não ser muito boa.

81
00:05:39,040 –> 00:05:42,680
Portanto, tudo aquilo
que pode ser feito industrialmente

82
00:05:42,760 –> 00:05:44,560
acaba dando resultado melhor.

83
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Mas nós não temos uma predileção.

84
00:05:46,480 –> 00:05:51,880
Nós temos experimentado vários materiais,
fizemos muita coisa em concreto aparente

85
00:05:51,960 –> 00:05:56,400
que é o material mais testado
na arquitetura paulista.

86
00:05:57,160 –> 00:06:01,880
Depois testamos outras coisas,
principalmente aço, madeira.

87
00:06:01,960 –> 00:06:05,920
Estamos agora desenvolvendo
o projeto do pavilhão brasileiro em Dubai

88
00:06:06,000 –> 00:06:09,320
que é uma densa estrutura com membranas,

89
00:06:09,400 –> 00:06:14,280
aquelas membranas de alta tecnologia
que tem alto rendimento estrutural.

90
00:06:14,640 –> 00:06:17,680
São esses materiais
que acabam nos interessando mais.

91
00:06:21,520 –> 00:06:24,520
Fora que eu já vi uma coisa,
em vez de fazer assim,

92
00:06:24,880 –> 00:06:28,080
puxa um pouquinho aqui
pra afastar e depois…

93
00:06:28,160 –> 00:06:33,280
A nossa colaboração com o Paulo
começou por um convite nosso a ele.

94
00:06:33,920 –> 00:06:36,200
E era um projeto que tinha tal abrangência

95
00:06:36,280 –> 00:06:39,760
que a gente achou
que justificava a presença de alguém

96
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como o Paulo
que tinha sido nosso professor na FAU.

97
00:06:44,200 –> 00:06:49,600
E aí a gente convidou ele
pra fazer parte desse projeto.

98
00:06:50,760 –> 00:06:55,680
Estou narrando uma época
que éramos recém formados.

99
00:06:55,760 –> 00:06:57,520
Nós éramos jovens,

100
00:06:57,600 –> 00:07:02,360
então a gente estava começando
essa prática profissional, o escritório.

101
00:07:02,760 –> 00:07:06,320
Então o Paulo veio,
ele topou esse convite,

102
00:07:06,400 –> 00:07:10,400
ele veio e aí começou
a nossa colaboração com ele.

103
00:07:10,480 –> 00:07:13,600
Depois disso,
muitas outras oportunidades surgiram,

104
00:07:13,680 –> 00:07:18,520
seja através da gente,
seja principalmente através dele mesmo.

105
00:07:26,520 –> 00:07:32,960
Eu acho que a arquitetura de qualidade
se é que se pode dizer assim,

106
00:07:34,200 –> 00:07:40,720
Eu considero que seja uma arquitetura
que envolva uma reflexão

107
00:07:41,360 –> 00:07:44,120
que diz respeito a muitos aspectos,

108
00:07:44,200 –> 00:07:47,320
eu acho que envolve o lugar onde ela está,

109
00:07:47,400 –> 00:07:52,400
seja do ponto de vista
das condições geográficas,

110
00:07:52,480 –> 00:07:56,520
orientações solares, ventos predominantes,

111
00:07:56,600 –> 00:08:02,480
dimensões, topografia,
seja do ponto de vista da cultura,

112
00:08:03,000 –> 00:08:07,000
ou seja, que envolva esse tipo de atenção.

113
00:08:07,320 –> 00:08:12,360
E outro aspecto
que eu acho fundamental é que…

114
00:08:14,120 –> 00:08:15,920
a arquitetura se constrói,

115
00:08:16,000 –> 00:08:20,200
então que o raciocínio
seja sempre permeado

116
00:08:20,280 –> 00:08:25,760
na forma de realizar ou construir
aquilo que está se desenhando.

117
00:08:26,560 –> 00:08:29,200
Acho que tem um outro aspecto

118
00:08:29,280 –> 00:08:33,720
que está ligado ao programa,
ao que essa arquitetura se destina

119
00:08:34,240 –> 00:08:40,400
que são as pessoas,
então eu acho ao que ela vai servir.

120
00:08:40,960 –> 00:08:42,520
Qual será o programa?

121
00:08:42,600 –> 00:08:49,160
E de que maneira as pessoas
conseguem frequentar esse lugar?

122
00:08:49,240 –> 00:08:52,960
Mas eu acho que pode ser
uma boa ideia… esperar…

123
00:08:54,200 –> 00:08:58,560
embaixo da marquise
e não dentro da casinha.

124
00:08:58,640 –> 00:09:03,400
A definição da arquitetura
é a construção faz as pessoas felizes.

125
00:09:03,480 –> 00:09:06,560
Essa é uma variante de várias variantes

126
00:09:06,640 –> 00:09:11,800
que já considerei da definição
de arquitetura do Lúcio Costa,

127
00:09:11,880 –> 00:09:17,000
o autor do Plano Piloto de Brasília,
o urbanista que deu origem

128
00:09:17,080 –> 00:09:22,760
à ideia de Brasília que é « a arquitetura
é construção feita com intenção ».

129
00:09:23,600 –> 00:09:27,320
Eu digo agora essa intenção
já considerando que ela será

130
00:09:27,680 –> 00:09:32,080
aquela característica da construção
capaz de fazer as pessoas felizes.

131
00:09:32,360 –> 00:09:35,960
Isso porque o valor mais importante,

132
00:09:36,040 –> 00:09:39,520
inclusive mais pragmático
da arquitetura é a beleza.

133
00:09:40,320 –> 00:09:45,080
É interessante também dizer
que a beleza só é percebida,

134
00:09:45,160 –> 00:09:47,000
só é considerada como tal,

135
00:09:47,080 –> 00:09:49,120
quando a arquitetura
funciona perfeitamente.

136
00:09:49,200 –> 00:09:52,680
Nenhum edifício que não funciona,
ou seja, onde é muito quente,

137
00:09:52,760 –> 00:09:56,160
ou onde entra água
ou onde se gastou demais,

138
00:09:57,240 –> 00:09:59,040
pode ser pensado como belo.

139
00:10:00,160 –> 00:10:05,200
Quando falha nesses outros aspectos,
a beleza não se sustenta.

French Subtitles

1
00:00:13,040 –> 00:00:16,000
J’ai choisi l’architecture,
d’étudier l’architecture,

2
00:00:16,080 –> 00:00:18,720
je dois reconnaître,
sans trop savoir pourquoi.

3
00:00:19,480 –> 00:00:22,240
J’étais surtout très intéressée

4
00:00:22,320 –> 00:00:25,960
par les questions urbaines.

5
00:00:26,040 –> 00:00:27,880
Donc, cela m’attirait,

6
00:00:27,960 –> 00:00:32,080
pour mieux comprendre les dynamiques
qui agissent dans la ville.

7
00:00:32,640 –> 00:00:36,480
Puis j’ai commencé à me tourner
vers l’architecture comme voie

8
00:00:36,560 –> 00:00:38,840
pour aborder ces questions.

9
00:00:42,240 –> 00:00:47,840
Je suis fils d’un ingénieur de projet
consultant en ingénierie

10
00:00:48,240 –> 00:00:53,040
et depuis mon enfance,
quand mon père développait des projets,

11
00:00:53,120 –> 00:00:55,760
il me désignait en disant :
« Il sera architecte.

12
00:00:55,840 –> 00:00:57,480
Il dessine bien. »

13
00:00:57,560 –> 00:00:59,960
Ce qui m’intéresse le plus
dans l’architecture,

14
00:01:00,040 –> 00:01:04,080
c’est le besoin d’une approche,

15
00:01:04,160 –> 00:01:07,480
et donc une connaissance générale
des problèmes.

16
00:01:07,560 –> 00:01:10,200
Car les problèmes se résolvent,
dans le cas de l’architecture

17
00:01:10,280 –> 00:01:12,520
qui est très complexe et à grande échelle,

18
00:01:13,240 –> 00:01:14,960
en considérant plusieurs aspects

19
00:01:15,040 –> 00:01:19,120
comme l’économie,
les aspects techniques et de construction,

20
00:01:20,080 –> 00:01:26,160
et surtout, les aspects symboliques
et métaphoriques de ce que signifie

21
00:01:26,440 –> 00:01:29,560
ce que nous appelons
la paternité de l’architecture,

22
00:01:29,640 –> 00:01:32,320
qui est le jugement
que tout architecte doit formuler

23
00:01:33,800 –> 00:01:36,400
pour adopter la direction
souhaitée pour chaque projet.

24
00:01:36,480 –> 00:01:38,520
Faire ceci et pas tout le reste.

25
00:01:44,240 –> 00:01:47,520
Nous sommes actuellement
deux associés principaux,

26
00:01:47,600 –> 00:01:50,120
mais MMBB a commencé avec quatre associés.

27
00:01:50,920 –> 00:01:53,960
Marta Moreira et moi
sommes les deux associés principaux,

28
00:01:54,040 –> 00:01:58,080
et parce que nous sommes associés,
pas juste un associé

29
00:01:58,160 –> 00:02:00,560
parmi les plus âgés, les fondateurs,

30
00:02:01,120 –> 00:02:07,200
nous avons décidé que l’un de nous
serait toujours responsable d’un projet.

31
00:02:07,280 –> 00:02:10,160
Ça ne veut pas dire
qu’il en aura la paternité,

32
00:02:10,440 –> 00:02:12,800
qu’il dira ce que sera le projet,

33
00:02:13,080 –> 00:02:18,200
car nous définissons toujours
la conception en parlant beaucoup,

34
00:02:18,280 –> 00:02:21,000
y compris tous les architectes du bureau.

35
00:02:21,080 –> 00:02:24,440
Mais c’est le responsable
qui prend les décisions.

36
00:02:26,880 –> 00:02:31,040

  • Car l’attente peut être…
  • Comment décrire l’architecture de MMBB ?

37
00:02:31,120 –> 00:02:34,560
Je crois que notre expérience
et nos intérêts

38
00:02:34,640 –> 00:02:40,280
sont très axés sur les questions liées
à l’aménagement urbain.

39
00:02:40,360 –> 00:02:44,560
Ça nous a toujours intéressés.

40
00:02:44,960 –> 00:02:50,280
Je crois que chez MMBB,
notre architecture est très brésilienne

41
00:02:50,920 –> 00:02:53,160
dans le sens où…

42
00:02:54,560 –> 00:02:57,520
elle est très attentive à notre condition,

43
00:02:57,600 –> 00:03:00,480
à la condition brésilienne,
la condition d’un pays en développement.

44
00:03:00,560 –> 00:03:05,320
Pour moi, faire de l’architecture
à São Paulo ou peut-être au Brésil

45
00:03:05,400 –> 00:03:07,760
n’est pas une tâche simple.

46
00:03:08,360 –> 00:03:10,000
Je crois que c’est peut-être dû

47
00:03:10,080 –> 00:03:13,640
à un certain manque de prestige
de la profession elle-même.

48
00:03:13,720 –> 00:03:17,280
Il est parfois très difficile
de considérer un architecte

49
00:03:17,360 –> 00:03:22,880
comme l’un des professionnels
d’une grande équipe multidisciplinaire

50
00:03:22,960 –> 00:03:26,480
qui résoudra
un gros problème d’infrastructure.

51
00:03:26,920 –> 00:03:31,880
Je pense donc qu’il nous est
un peu difficile de nous insérer

52
00:03:32,360 –> 00:03:36,160
dans des interventions de l’échelle
qui nous intéresse beaucoup.

53
00:03:42,320 –> 00:03:46,160
Ici, au bureau,
nous travaillons avec divers outils

54
00:03:46,240 –> 00:03:49,200
qui sont à la disposition
du travail architectural d’aujourd’hui,

55
00:03:49,280 –> 00:03:51,760
mais nous dessinons beaucoup à la main.

56
00:03:51,840 –> 00:03:56,200
C’est peut-être une pratique en déclin
dans les jeunes générations.

57
00:03:56,600 –> 00:03:59,680
Et nous dessinons toujours
les concepts à la main.

58
00:03:59,760 –> 00:04:03,640
Les dessins architecturaux,
c’est-à-dire, les dessins faits

59
00:04:03,720 –> 00:04:06,080
sans aucun instrument
pour donner de l’agilité,

60
00:04:06,160 –> 00:04:08,480
comme les plans,
les coupes et les élévations.

61
00:04:08,560 –> 00:04:10,760
Après avoir fait le dessin à la main,

62
00:04:10,840 –> 00:04:14,000
nous le transférons
presque toujours en CAD,

63
00:04:14,320 –> 00:04:19,640
ce qui donne des dessins
toujours très schématiques et souples,

64
00:04:19,720 –> 00:04:21,520
puis nous le transférons vers le BIM

65
00:04:21,600 –> 00:04:24,640
où les maquettes électroniques
sont faites.

66
00:04:24,720 –> 00:04:27,000
Et à partir de ces maquettes,

67
00:04:27,080 –> 00:04:30,720
on obtient les diverses
représentations architecturales

68
00:04:30,800 –> 00:04:32,120
comme les dessins, les listes, etc.

69
00:04:32,200 –> 00:04:34,840
Naturellement, nous réalisons
beaucoup de maquettes

70
00:04:34,920 –> 00:04:36,800
pour des perspectives électroniques,

71
00:04:36,880 –> 00:04:41,040
pour la visualisation
et des maquettes physiques.

72
00:04:41,120 –> 00:04:43,160
En particulier, il faut signaler

73
00:04:43,240 –> 00:04:46,000
que, suivant en cela
la tradition de São Paulo

74
00:04:46,080 –> 00:04:50,360
inaugurée par Paulo Mendes da Rocha,
peut-être par Vilanova Artigas,

75
00:04:50,440 –> 00:04:56,000
nous utilisons beaucoup le tableau noir
pour faire des dessins à la main

76
00:04:56,080 –> 00:04:58,520
et des études lors de réunions de travail

77
00:04:58,600 –> 00:05:01,640
où chacun regarde
un grand dessin fait au mur.

78
00:05:04,920 –> 00:05:08,720
Nous n’avons pas de préférence
pour un matériau précis.

79
00:05:09,400 –> 00:05:15,000
En général, nous apprécions
les matériaux les plus technologiques,

80
00:05:15,080 –> 00:05:18,720
même si la chaîne de production
brésilienne est peu sophistiquée,

81
00:05:18,800 –> 00:05:22,440
pas très riche en technologies de pointe.

82
00:05:22,520 –> 00:05:25,960
Mais ces matériaux que j’ai appelés
« les plus technologiques »

83
00:05:26,040 –> 00:05:30,040
peuvent presque toujours être
fabriqués en industrie, préproduits,

84
00:05:30,120 –> 00:05:32,960
pas uniquement produits sur le chantier.

85
00:05:33,040 –> 00:05:38,640
C’est dû au fait qu’au Brésil,
la main-d’œuvre n’est pas très bonne.

86
00:05:39,040 –> 00:05:42,680
Donc, tout ce qui peut
être fait en industrie

87
00:05:42,760 –> 00:05:44,560
donne de meilleurs résultats.

88
00:05:44,640 –> 00:05:46,400
Mais nous n’avons pas de préférence.

89
00:05:46,480 –> 00:05:51,880
Nous avons essayé bien des matériaux,
beaucoup utilisé le béton apparent

90
00:05:51,960 –> 00:05:56,400
qui est le matériau le plus essayé
dans l’architecture de São Paulo.

91
00:05:57,160 –> 00:06:01,880
Puis nous avons essayé d’autres choses,
surtout l’acier et le bois.

92
00:06:01,960 –> 00:06:05,920
Nous développons actuellement
le projet du pavillon brésilien à Dubai

93
00:06:06,000 –> 00:06:09,320
qui est une structure dense,
avec des membranes,

94
00:06:09,400 –> 00:06:14,280
le type de membranes high-tech qui offrent
de hautes performances structurelles.

95
00:06:14,640 –> 00:06:17,680
Ce sont donc là les matériaux
qui nous intéressent le plus.

96
00:06:21,520 –> 00:06:24,520
J’ai vu quelque chose.
Au lieu de le faire comme ça,

97
00:06:24,880 –> 00:06:28,080
tire un peu ici pour séparer,
et ensuite…

98
00:06:28,160 –> 00:06:33,280
Notre collaboration avec Paulo
a commencé quand nous l’avons invité.

99
00:06:33,920 –> 00:06:36,200
C’était un projet d’une telle ampleur

100
00:06:36,280 –> 00:06:39,760
qu’il nous a semblé justifié
d’avoir quelqu’un

101
00:06:39,840 –> 00:06:43,720
comme Paulo qui avait été
notre professeur à la FAU.

102
00:06:44,200 –> 00:06:49,600
Donc, nous l’avons invité
à participer à ce projet.

103
00:06:50,760 –> 00:06:55,680
Je vous parle d’une époque
où nous venions de nous former.

104
00:06:55,760 –> 00:06:57,520
Nous étions jeunes,

105
00:06:57,600 –> 00:07:02,360
nous démarrions donc
ce cabinet professionnel, ce bureau.

106
00:07:02,760 –> 00:07:06,320
Paulo nous a donc rejoints,
il a accepté l’invitation.

107
00:07:06,400 –> 00:07:10,400
Il a rejoint l’équipe
et nous avons collaboré.

108
00:07:10,480 –> 00:07:13,600
Après cela, bien d’autres occasions
se sont présentées,

109
00:07:13,680 –> 00:07:18,520
par notre intermédiaire,
ou surtout par le sien.

110
00:07:26,520 –> 00:07:32,960
Pour moi, l’architecture de qualité,
si on peut le dire ainsi,

111
00:07:34,200 –> 00:07:40,720
c’est une architecture
qui implique une réflexion

112
00:07:41,360 –> 00:07:44,120
englobant de nombreux aspects.

113
00:07:44,200 –> 00:07:47,320
Elle implique l’endroit
où elle sera mise en œuvre,

114
00:07:47,400 –> 00:07:52,400
du point de vue
des conditions géographiques,

115
00:07:52,480 –> 00:07:56,520
des orientations solaires,
des vents dominants,

116
00:07:56,600 –> 00:08:02,480
les dimensions, la topographie,
le point de vue culturel…

117
00:08:03,000 –> 00:08:07,000
En fait, elle implique
ce genre d’attention.

118
00:08:07,320 –> 00:08:12,360
Et un autre aspect que je considère
comme fondamental, c’est que…

119
00:08:14,120 –> 00:08:15,920
l’architecture est construite.

120
00:08:16,000 –> 00:08:20,200
Ce raisonnement est donc toujours imprégné

121
00:08:20,280 –> 00:08:25,760
de la manière d’accomplir ou de construire
ce qui est en cours de conception.

122
00:08:26,680 –> 00:08:31,320
Et je crois qu’il y a un autre aspect
lié au programme,

123
00:08:31,400 –> 00:08:33,720
à ce à quoi cette architecture
est destinée,

124
00:08:34,240 –> 00:08:35,560
ce sont les gens.

125
00:08:36,600 –> 00:08:40,480
Donc, je me dis…
Qu’est-ce que cela va servir ?

126
00:08:40,960 –> 00:08:42,520
Quel sera le programme

127
00:08:42,600 –> 00:08:49,160
et comment les gens
visiteront-ils cet endroit ?

128
00:08:49,240 –> 00:08:52,960
Mais je pense que ce pourrait être
une bonne idée… d’attendre…

129
00:08:54,200 –> 00:08:58,560
sous la marquise et non dans la maison.

130
00:08:58,640 –> 00:09:03,400
La définition de l’architecture, c’est :
la construction qui rend les gens heureux.

131
00:09:03,480 –> 00:09:06,560
C’est une variante
parmi plusieurs variantes

132
00:09:06,640 –> 00:09:08,960
dont j’ai toujours tenu compte

133
00:09:09,040 –> 00:09:11,800
dans la définition de l’architecture
de Lúcio Costa,

134
00:09:11,880 –> 00:09:14,200
l’auteur du « Plano Piloto de Brasília »,

135
00:09:14,280 –> 00:09:19,440
l’urbaniste qui a réfléchi au principe
de l’idée de Brasilia, qui est :

136
00:09:19,520 –> 00:09:22,880
« L’architecture est une construction
réalisée avec une intention. »

137
00:09:23,600 –> 00:09:27,320
Je parle de cette intention
en considérant qu’elle sera

138
00:09:27,680 –> 00:09:32,080
cette caractéristique de construction
pouvant rendre les gens heureux.

139
00:09:32,360 –> 00:09:35,960
La raison en est que la valeur
la plus importante,

140
00:09:36,040 –> 00:09:39,520
même plus pragmatiquement
en architecture, c’est la beauté.

141
00:09:40,320 –> 00:09:45,080
Il est aussi intéressant de dire
que la beauté n’est perçue,

142
00:09:45,160 –> 00:09:47,000
n’est considérée comme telle

143
00:09:47,080 –> 00:09:49,120
que quand l’architecture
fonctionne parfaitement.

144
00:09:49,200 –> 00:09:52,680
Aucun bâtiment ne fonctionnant pas,
c’est-à-dire : où il fait très chaud,

145
00:09:52,760 –> 00:09:56,160
où l’eau s’infiltre
ou qui crée trop de dépenses,

146
00:09:57,240 –> 00:09:59,040
ne peut être considéré comme beau.

147
00:10:00,160 –> 00:10:04,600
Quand ces autres aspects sont défaillants,
la beauté n’est pas durable.

English Subtitles

1
00:00:13,040 –> 00:00:16,000
I’ve chosen architecture,
to study architecture.

2
00:00:16,080 –> 00:00:18,720
I have to confess that I’m not sure why.

3
00:00:19,480 –> 00:00:22,240
I was very interested

4
00:00:22,320 –> 00:00:25,960
mainly for the issues of the city.

5
00:00:26,040 –> 00:00:27,880
So, it attracted me,

6
00:00:27,960 –> 00:00:32,080
to be able to better understand
the dynamics that happen in the city.

7
00:00:32,640 –> 00:00:36,480
And then I started to look
for architecture as a path

8
00:00:36,560 –> 00:00:38,840
to get to these issues.

9
00:00:42,240 –> 00:00:47,840
I am the son of a consultative
engineering project engineer

10
00:00:48,240 –> 00:00:53,040
and since I was little,
while my father was developing projects,

11
00:00:53,120 –> 00:00:55,760
he used to point at me and say:
« This one is going to be an architect.

12
00:00:55,840 –> 00:00:57,480
He draws well and stuff. »

13
00:00:57,560 –> 00:00:59,960
And I think what interests me
the most in architecture

14
00:01:00,040 –> 00:01:04,080
is the need for an approach,

15
00:01:04,160 –> 00:01:07,480
therefore a general knowledge
of the problems.

16
00:01:07,560 –> 00:01:10,200
Because the problems are solved,
in the case of architecture

17
00:01:10,280 –> 00:01:12,520
which has a lot of complexity and scale,

18
00:01:13,240 –> 00:01:14,960
considering several aspects

19
00:01:15,040 –> 00:01:19,120
like economics,
constructive and technical aspects

20
00:01:20,080 –> 00:01:26,160
and mainly the symbolic,
metaphorical aspects of what means

21
00:01:26,440 –> 00:01:29,560
what we call authorship of architecture,

22
00:01:29,640 –> 00:01:32,320
which is the judgment
that each architect has to make

23
00:01:33,800 –> 00:01:36,400
to adopt the direction
you want for each project.

24
00:01:36,480 –> 00:01:38,520
Do this and not everything else.

25
00:01:44,240 –> 00:01:47,520
We are currently two main partners,

26
00:01:47,600 –> 00:01:50,120
but MMBB started with four partners.

27
00:01:50,920 –> 00:01:53,960
The two main partners
are Marta Moreira and I

28
00:01:54,040 –> 00:01:58,080
and because we are some partners,
not just one partner

29
00:01:58,160 –> 00:02:00,560
among the oldest, the founders,

30
00:02:01,120 –> 00:02:07,200
we always defined that one of us
would be responsible for a project.

31
00:02:07,280 –> 00:02:10,160
It does not mean
that this one will be the author,

32
00:02:10,440 –> 00:02:12,800
the one who will say
how the project will be,

33
00:02:13,080 –> 00:02:18,200
because we do its conception
always talking a lot,

34
00:02:18,280 –> 00:02:21,000
including all the architects
in the office.

35
00:02:21,080 –> 00:02:24,440
But the one who is responsible
is the one who decides.

36
00:02:26,880 –> 00:02:31,040
-Because the wait can be…
-How to describe MMBB’s architecture?

37
00:02:31,120 –> 00:02:34,560
I think we have an experience
and an interest

38
00:02:34,640 –> 00:02:40,280
very focused on issues related
to urban design.

39
00:02:40,360 –> 00:02:44,560
We have always been interested on this.

40
00:02:44,960 –> 00:02:50,280
I think the architecture we do at MMBB
is a very Brazilian architecture

41
00:02:50,920 –> 00:02:53,160
in the sense that…

42
00:02:54,560 –> 00:02:57,520
it is very attentive to our condition,

43
00:02:57,600 –> 00:03:00,480
to the Brazilian condition,
to the condition of a developing country.

44
00:03:00,560 –> 00:03:05,320
I think doing architecture in the city
of São Paulo or maybe in Brazil

45
00:03:05,400 –> 00:03:07,760
is not a simple task.

46
00:03:08,360 –> 00:03:10,000
I think it happens

47
00:03:10,080 –> 00:03:13,640
maybe due to a certain lack of prestige
in the profession itself.

48
00:03:13,720 –> 00:03:17,280
Sometimes it is very hard
to consider an architect

49
00:03:17,360 –> 00:03:22,880
as one of the professionals who are part
of a large multidisciplinary team

50
00:03:22,960 –> 00:03:26,480
that will solve
a big infrastructural problem.

51
00:03:26,920 –> 00:03:31,880
So I think there is a little difficulty
of inserting ourselves

52
00:03:32,360 –> 00:03:36,160
on this scale of interventions
that interests us a lot.

53
00:03:42,320 –> 00:03:46,160
We, here at the office,
work with the various tools

54
00:03:46,240 –> 00:03:49,200
that are at the disposal
of architectural work today,

55
00:03:49,280 –> 00:03:51,760
but we draw a lot by hand.

56
00:03:51,840 –> 00:03:56,200
Perhaps it is something that is decreasing
in the younger generations.

57
00:03:56,600 –> 00:03:59,680
And we always draw the concepts by hand.

58
00:03:59,760 –> 00:04:03,640
Architectural drawings,
that is, drawings made

59
00:04:03,720 –> 00:04:06,080
without any instrument
in order to grant agility,

60
00:04:06,160 –> 00:04:08,480
such as plans, cuts and elevations.

61
00:04:08,560 –> 00:04:14,000
After drawing by hand
we almost always transfer it to CAD,

62
00:04:14,320 –> 00:04:19,640
which are still very schematic
and agile drawings,

63
00:04:19,720 –> 00:04:24,640
and then we transfer it to BIM
where electronic models are made.

64
00:04:24,720 –> 00:04:27,000
And from these models,

65
00:04:27,080 –> 00:04:32,080
the various architecture representations
are obtained, like drawings, lists, etc.

66
00:04:32,160 –> 00:04:36,800
And we obviously make a lot of models
for electronic perspectives,

67
00:04:36,880 –> 00:04:41,040
for visualization
and some physical models.

68
00:04:41,120 –> 00:04:43,160
In particular,
I think it is worth mentioning

69
00:04:43,240 –> 00:04:46,000
that by following
the São Paulo’s tradition,

70
00:04:46,080 –> 00:04:50,360
inaugurated by Paulo Mendes da Rocha,
maybe by Vilanova Artigas,

71
00:04:50,440 –> 00:04:56,000
we use the blackboard a lot
to make drawings by hand

72
00:04:56,080 –> 00:04:58,520
and studies at work meetings

73
00:04:58,600 –> 00:05:01,640
where everyone looks
at a big drawing made on the wall.

74
00:05:04,920 –> 00:05:08,720
We have no predilection,
let’s say, for a certain material.

75
00:05:09,400 –> 00:05:15,000
In general, we like
the most technological materials.

76
00:05:15,080 –> 00:05:18,720
Although the Brazilian production chain
is not very sophisticated,

77
00:05:18,800 –> 00:05:22,440
very rich in high technology.

78
00:05:22,520 –> 00:05:25,960
But these materials that I called
« most technological »

79
00:05:26,040 –> 00:05:30,040
can almost always be industrialized,
pre-produced,

80
00:05:30,120 –> 00:05:32,960
not produced only
on the construction site.

81
00:05:33,040 –> 00:05:38,640
This is due to the fact that our workforce
in Brazil is not very good.

82
00:05:39,040 –> 00:05:42,680
So everything
that can be made industrially

83
00:05:42,760 –> 00:05:44,560
ends up giving better results.

84
00:05:44,640 –> 00:05:46,400
But we don’t have a predilection.

85
00:05:46,480 –> 00:05:51,880
We have tried a lot of materials,
we have done a lot in exposed concrete

86
00:05:51,960 –> 00:05:56,400
which is the most tested material
in São Paulo’s architecture.

87
00:05:57,160 –> 00:06:01,880
Then we tested other things,
mainly steel and wood.

88
00:06:01,960 –> 00:06:05,920
We are now developing
the Brazilian pavilion project in Dubai

89
00:06:06,000 –> 00:06:09,320
which is a dense structure,
with membranes,

90
00:06:09,400 –> 00:06:14,280
the kind of high-tech membranes
that have high structural performance.

91
00:06:14,640 –> 00:06:17,680
So these are the materials
that interest us the most.

92
00:06:21,520 –> 00:06:24,520
I’ve seen something.
Instead of doing it like that,

93
00:06:24,880 –> 00:06:28,080
pull a little here to separate and then…

94
00:06:28,160 –> 00:06:33,280
Our collaboration with Paulo started
with an invitation from us to him.

95
00:06:33,920 –> 00:06:36,200
And it was a project
that had such coverage

96
00:06:36,280 –> 00:06:39,760
that we thought justified
the presence of someone

97
00:06:39,840 –> 00:06:43,720
like Paulo who had been
our teacher at FAU.

98
00:06:44,200 –> 00:06:49,600
And then we invited him
to be part of this project.

99
00:06:50,760 –> 00:06:55,680
I am narrating a time
when we were recently formed.

100
00:06:55,760 –> 00:06:57,520
We were young,

101
00:06:57,600 –> 00:07:02,360
so we were starting
this professional practice, the office.

102
00:07:02,760 –> 00:07:06,320
So Paulo joined us,
he accepted the invitation.

103
00:07:06,400 –> 00:07:10,400
He joined the team and then
our collaboration with him took place.

104
00:07:10,480 –> 00:07:13,600
After that,
many other opportunities arose,

105
00:07:13,680 –> 00:07:18,520
either through us,
or mainly through himself.

106
00:07:26,520 –> 00:07:32,960
I think that the quality architecture,
if you can say it this way,

107
00:07:34,200 –> 00:07:40,720
I consider it to be an architecture
that involves a reflection

108
00:07:41,360 –> 00:07:44,120
which concerns many aspects.

109
00:07:44,200 –> 00:07:47,320
I think it involves the place
where it is going to be used,

110
00:07:47,400 –> 00:07:52,400
either from the point of view
of geographical conditions,

111
00:07:52,480 –> 00:07:56,520
solar orientations, prevailing winds,

112
00:07:56,600 –> 00:08:02,480
dimensions, topography, whether
from the point of view of culture…

113
00:08:03,000 –> 00:08:07,000
I mean, that involves
this kind of attention.

114
00:08:07,320 –> 00:08:12,360
And another aspect that I think
is fundamental, is that…

115
00:08:14,120 –> 00:08:15,920
architecture is built.

116
00:08:16,000 –> 00:08:20,200
So that reasoning is always permeated

117
00:08:20,280 –> 00:08:25,760
in how to accomplish or build
what is being designed.

118
00:08:26,680 –> 00:08:31,320
And I think there’s another aspect
that is connected to the program,

119
00:08:31,400 –> 00:08:33,720
to what this architecture is intended for,

120
00:08:34,240 –> 00:08:35,560
which are the people.

121
00:08:36,600 –> 00:08:40,480
So, I think… What is it going to serve?

122
00:08:40,960 –> 00:08:42,520
What will be the program

123
00:08:42,600 –> 00:08:49,160
and how do people get to visit this place?

124
00:08:49,240 –> 00:08:52,960
But I think it might be a good idea…
to wait…

125
00:08:54,200 –> 00:08:58,560
under the marquee
and not inside the house.

126
00:08:58,640 –> 00:09:03,400
The definition of architecture is:
the construction that makes people happy.

127
00:09:03,480 –> 00:09:06,560
This is a variant of several variants

128
00:09:06,640 –> 00:09:11,800
that I’ve already considered from
Lúcio Costa’s definition of architecture,

129
00:09:11,880 –> 00:09:14,200
the author
of the « Plano Piloto de Brasília »,

130
00:09:14,280 –> 00:09:18,280
the urban planner who thought about
the principle of the idea of Brasilia,

131
00:09:19,000 –> 00:09:22,760
which is: « Architecture is construction
made with intention ».

132
00:09:23,600 –> 00:09:27,320
I now say this intention
already considering that it will be

133
00:09:27,680 –> 00:09:32,080
the characteristic of construction
that can make people happy.

134
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That’s because the most important value,

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even more pragmatic
in architecture, is beauty.

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It is also interesting to say
that beauty is only perceived,

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is only considered as such,

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when the architecture works perfectly.

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No building that doesn’t work,
that is, where it’s very hot,

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or where infiltrates water
or where it’s spent too much,

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can be thought of as beautiful.

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When all these other aspects fail,
beauty cannot be sustained.