In the very heart of São Paulo, the SESC 24 di Maio is used for several purposes: sport, culture and leisure. It is organised vertically, achieving spatial continuity by means of a ramp and openings. People who go to the theatre in the basement can see the sky if they look up, and people in the swimming pool on the rooftop can interact with the floor below, the cafeteria, through an opening in the roof.
The SESC is a public building where people from all sections of the population mingle.
Project name: SESC 24 de Maio
Address: Rua 24 de Maio, 109, São Paulo – Brazil
Assignation/Destination: Cultural and sports centre + Theatre
Name of client: SESC
Name of architect: Paulo Mendes da Rocha
Collaborator : MMBB Arquitetos
Structural engineering: Kurkdjian e Fruchtengarten Engenheiros Associados
Contractor :
Project status: Complete (2017)
Size of project:
Plot size:
Technical sheet of this architecture video clip
Journalist : Emma C. Dessouroux
Cameramen : Mister Emma / Les Délires Productions
Editing : Cristina Dias
Direction : Mister Emma
Production : Les Délires Productions
Translation : Strakertranslations
Rereading : Serge Ryckoort / Emelire
Subtitles : Strakertranslations
Speakers :
Milton Braga (Architect founder – MMBB Arquitetos) + Gleuson Pinheiro (Architect – MMBB arquitectos) + Paulo Mendes Da Rocha (Architect)
Portuguese Subtitles
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00:00:12,840 –> 00:00:17,520
Era melhor, em duas palavras pelo menos,
explicar bem, o que é o SESC.
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00:00:18,320 –> 00:00:25,280
É uma instituição patronal
onde os homens do comércio, os patrões,
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amparam, com uma verba enorme que possuem,
que as leis que conseguiram,
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obrigam o comércio todo
a pagar um tributo destinado a isso,
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00:00:39,200 –> 00:00:46,000
a construir o SESC,
que quer dizer serviço social do comércio.
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00:00:47,160 –> 00:00:52,560
Atrações recreativas educativas
para os funcionários,
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00:00:52,960 –> 00:00:56,160
os subalternos, portanto,
os empregados no comércio.
8
00:01:04,800 –> 00:01:08,960
Portanto, eles fazem construções
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00:01:09,640 –> 00:01:15,880
onde investem fortunas,
altos investimentos em territórios
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00:01:15,960 –> 00:01:21,800
e terrenos que sabem que são acessíveis
junto a transporte público, metrô, etc.
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00:01:21,880 –> 00:01:26,920
E eles chamam arquitetos que consideram
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os mais capazes para esses projetos
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00:01:30,760 –> 00:01:35,760
que vão realizando sempre e ampliando
de acordo com aquilo que vai crescendo
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00:01:36,560 –> 00:01:38,280
em todas as cidades do Brasil.
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São Paulo, sendo a cidade que é,
20 milhões de habitantes,
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você vai imaginar
quantas unidades existem de SESC
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e que importância tem isso aqui.
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No caso da 24 de Maio,
foi justamente o que se deu.
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Uma loja de departamentos
em um prédio de 15 andares
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00:01:58,440 –> 00:02:00,000
desativada há muito tempo
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eles compraram
para transformar o edifício,
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em pleno centro da cidade de São Paulo,
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00:02:06,280 –> 00:02:12,120
um edifício que contivesse esse programa
que não é do arquiteto, é do SESC.
24
00:02:12,640 –> 00:02:15,760
Esse é um prédio, como todo SESC,
que tem muitos usos:
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tem esporte, tem cultura, lazer.
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Cultura, artes visuais,
teatro, dança, é muita coisa.
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00:02:24,320 –> 00:02:28,080
É um prédio
com todo esse programa público
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e o programa público a gente sabe,
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se potencializa
se houver mais continuidade espacial,
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mais relação entre as coisas,
entre as pessoas.
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Uma coisa contamina a outra,
no bom sentido, ativa a outra.
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00:02:40,080 –> 00:02:43,360
E quando está
em uma organização espacial vertical,
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é mais difícil
obter essa continuidade espacial.
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E aqui, então, o que se fez
foi quase empilhar edifícios horizontais
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e cada um desses usos, por exemplo,
a piscina, pega alguns andares.
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A piscina tem o tanque e o solarium
lá em cima, no último andar, na cobertura,
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00:03:03,120 –> 00:03:07,160
é a imagem mais conhecida
desse SESC 24 de Maio.
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00:03:07,240 –> 00:03:10,640
Ao lado do tanque,
que tem uma altura, é um andar inteiro,
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00:03:10,720 –> 00:03:12,840
ficam os vestiários e embaixo,
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00:03:12,920 –> 00:03:15,920
aqui onde estamos, é o jardim da piscina,
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00:03:16,160 –> 00:03:19,040
é o sol e a sombra para os banhistas.
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Com isso, uma área
que em planta não é muito grande,
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porque é um prédio que tem que ser
vertical, não pode se espalhar,
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acaba sendo uma área grande.
45
00:03:28,240 –> 00:03:32,520
E para que ela tenha essa associação
tem que ter elementos comuns.
46
00:03:32,600 –> 00:03:34,120
E essa água aqui embaixo,
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especialmente agora
que as crianças entram, é a piscina delas,
48
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acaba fazendo com que as pessoas
percebam que isso aqui é uma coisa só.
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00:03:45,160 –> 00:03:48,520
Acho que tem uma situação
que também é bastante interessante,
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o Milton já mencionou o nome
daquele andar em que a gente estava,
51
00:03:52,920 –> 00:03:56,120
que é o jardim da piscina,
que é uma situação no centro
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00:03:56,200 –> 00:03:58,720
de ter alguns poucos jardins,
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00:03:58,800 –> 00:04:04,480
usos da cobertura dos edifícios
que têm acesso público.
54
00:04:05,080 –> 00:04:12,400
E o SESC, nesse local da cidade,
aparece como um mirante de acesso franco,
55
00:04:12,480 –> 00:04:21,880
e isso é uma situação bastante utilizada
pela população que frequenta o centro.
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00:04:21,960 –> 00:04:25,040
Obviamente, a arquitetura
também pode criar outros recursos
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00:04:25,320 –> 00:04:31,440
que estabeleçam essa ligação,
essa continuidade espacial ou de sentidos.
58
00:04:31,840 –> 00:04:37,200
Nesse caso, aquele vazio
por onde inclusive cai água da piscina,
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00:04:37,560 –> 00:04:39,560
vem um barulho também dos banhistas,
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é super importante
para criar essa relação.
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00:04:48,080 –> 00:04:52,440
Aqui eu acho que vale falar um pouquinho
da organização da construção.
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00:04:53,520 –> 00:04:55,160
Acho que todo mundo sabe,
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00:04:55,240 –> 00:04:58,560
o SESC 24 de Maio
aproveitou o antigo edifício da Mesbla,
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00:04:58,840 –> 00:05:00,400
um edifício de…
65
00:05:00,480 –> 00:05:05,320
A Mesbla é uma loja de departamentos
que pegava o térreo e duas sobrelojas
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00:05:05,880 –> 00:05:10,280
com uma cúpula até e depois sobre isso,
havia um conjunto de escritórios
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00:05:10,560 –> 00:05:12,240
e uma estrutura em U.
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00:05:12,320 –> 00:05:15,320
Originalmente um primeiro um L
e dez anos depois
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00:05:15,400 –> 00:05:17,360
construíram a terceira perna.
70
00:05:17,440 –> 00:05:20,280
Isso deve ter sido
nos anos 40, 50 do século 20.
71
00:05:20,600 –> 00:05:21,960
Cheia de pilares.
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00:05:22,480 –> 00:05:26,760
E a primeira vez que viemos
aqui ao terreno com o Paulo Mendes,
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00:05:27,080 –> 00:05:30,160
vimos, o Paulo viu,
um predinho pequenininho,
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7 x 25 metros, um lote pequeno,
um edifício feito para ser um restaurante,
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00:05:35,640 –> 00:05:40,680
muito difícil de ser refuncionalizado
porque era pequeno e desproporcional
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00:05:40,760 –> 00:05:44,400
em relação ao resto e o Paulo falou,
« Acho que isso não vai dar certo.
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O melhor a fazer é que o SESC compre
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00:05:47,480 –> 00:05:49,440
e a gente integra isso ao conjunto. »
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Praticamente, foi possível fazer
aquilo que o SESC pretendia
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00:05:54,240 –> 00:05:58,640
por essa estratégia de comprar
o terreno do lado como anexo,
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00:05:58,720 –> 00:06:04,160
porque nessa pequena área
separada por três metros,
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00:06:04,240 –> 00:06:07,240
que se fez pontes de ligação
em cada andar,
83
00:06:07,320 –> 00:06:09,240
nesse pequeno anexo,
84
00:06:09,320 –> 00:06:11,680
que não é tão pequeno assim,
afinal de contas, né,
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00:06:12,600 –> 00:06:19,000
150 metros quadrados por andar,
estão todas as instalações sanitárias,
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00:06:19,080 –> 00:06:23,920
todos os reservatórios de água,
todas as máquinas para refrigeração,
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climatização, todos os depósitos,
por exemplo, para a cozinha, frigoríficos.
88
00:06:29,640 –> 00:06:35,360
Principalmente com jogo de elevador
que sai nessa rua lateral só para serviço,
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00:06:35,840 –> 00:06:39,800
o que faz com que o outro edifício
fique totalmente aliviado
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00:06:40,440 –> 00:06:44,760
desses encargos de serviços auxiliares.
91
00:06:45,200 –> 00:06:49,280
É muito bonito porque fica realmente
como um vizinho muito próximo,
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já fora dessa regularidade
do terreno original.
93
00:07:01,760 –> 00:07:08,120
E nesse terreno original, a terceira ala
tinha uma série de escadas pequenas
94
00:07:08,200 –> 00:07:11,960
e elevadores que ficavam aqui
onde estamos agora,
95
00:07:12,360 –> 00:07:18,280
onde buscamos fazer então
uma nova instalação para circulação
96
00:07:18,640 –> 00:07:20,840
e deixar o máximo de vazios possíveis.
97
00:07:27,880 –> 00:07:31,840
As mais surpreendentes imagens
desse prédio estão nesses vazios,
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00:07:31,920 –> 00:07:34,720
tanto para quem olha para cima
como para quem olha para baixo.
99
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Quem está lá embaixo entrando no teatro,
quando olha para cima, pode ver o céu.
100
00:07:42,680 –> 00:07:45,200
Fizemos uma rampa contínua
para dar a ideia
101
00:07:45,280 –> 00:07:49,000
da própria cidade em desenvolvimento.
Quem não quiser usar o elevador,
102
00:07:49,080 –> 00:07:51,640
pode ir subindo devagar aquilo tudo, etc.
103
00:07:57,160 –> 00:07:59,600
As rampas que a gente vê lá no fundo
104
00:08:00,280 –> 00:08:05,240
é talvez o elemento arquitetônico
mais importante do projeto,
105
00:08:05,680 –> 00:08:08,680
porque as rampas,
juntamente com aquela fachada
106
00:08:09,000 –> 00:08:10,800
cujo desenho é muito forte,
107
00:08:11,280 –> 00:08:14,480
é a fachada mais importante
porque é a imagem mais presente
108
00:08:14,560 –> 00:08:16,120
para os usuários do SESC.
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00:08:16,440 –> 00:08:20,000
E ela é importante e presente
porque ela está em todos os andares.
110
00:08:28,360 –> 00:08:32,440
Bom, essa frente toda
seria possível fazer ao ar livre,
111
00:08:32,960 –> 00:08:37,680
quer dizer, coberta, porém sem parede,
mas tem a chuva de vento, coisas assim.
112
00:08:38,320 –> 00:08:40,880
Portanto, pareceu interessante envidraçar.
113
00:08:41,680 –> 00:08:43,840
Ao mesmo tempo tem que respirar,
114
00:08:44,240 –> 00:08:49,680
é fácil deixar uma pequena fresta
nos vidros que resista ao efeito de sopro.
115
00:08:50,080 –> 00:08:56,240
Aí você entra com engenheiros que
te assessoram para chegar a esse resultado
116
00:08:56,720 –> 00:09:00,440
e se fosse possível esse pano de vidro
117
00:09:00,760 –> 00:09:04,080
não repetir simplesmente um prédio,
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00:09:04,160 –> 00:09:07,600
a fachada de um prédio,
e nos fez imaginar
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00:09:07,680 –> 00:09:11,840
aquela estrutura em grade de treliça,
120
00:09:11,920 –> 00:09:14,920
e com isso, resultou naquilo
que tem a sua graça, né.
121
00:09:15,880 –> 00:09:19,000
É uma fachada transparente que respira
122
00:09:20,240 –> 00:09:24,080
no sentido de ventilação natural,
coisas assim.
123
00:09:27,200 –> 00:09:32,000
Preservar essa estrutura
foi um ensaio importante
124
00:09:32,800 –> 00:09:35,320
para saber que aqui
a gente não precisa reconstruir tudo,
125
00:09:35,400 –> 00:09:40,160
a gente pode reciclar,
aproveitar aquilo que já está feito.
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00:09:40,680 –> 00:09:43,960
E obviamente, aproveitando essa estrutura,
127
00:09:44,760 –> 00:09:50,320
nós economizamos um monte de lixo,
nós não geramos um monte de lixo.
128
00:09:50,600 –> 00:09:55,440
Aqui nós aproveitamos integralmente
toda estrutura e fundação que já havia.
129
00:09:55,520 –> 00:09:59,400
Tudo que é novo, ou é em aço
ou em concreto aparente,
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00:09:59,800 –> 00:10:02,480
e aquilo que é existente
está pintado de branco.
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00:10:03,320 –> 00:10:07,240
Nós vamos ver também
que nessa estrutura original de U
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00:10:07,320 –> 00:10:13,120
foram encaixadas no miolo quatro colunas
que estruturam a parte nova,
133
00:10:13,200 –> 00:10:18,800
a grosso modo, e que acabam alojando
os espaços mais importantes,
134
00:10:18,880 –> 00:10:21,040
os espaços que dependem de grandes vãos.
135
00:10:34,240 –> 00:10:39,200
A gente vê aqui em branco
a chuva de pilares da ala histórica,
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00:10:39,280 –> 00:10:41,000
essa é a mais nova,
que tem menos pilares,
137
00:10:41,080 –> 00:10:42,880
as outras tem mais pilares ainda.
138
00:10:43,840 –> 00:10:47,000
E a gente vê como é bonito, né,
um filme mesmo, é um festival.
139
00:10:47,080 –> 00:10:48,760
Estamos vendo ali
uma aula de ginástica.
140
00:10:48,840 –> 00:10:51,560
Mas o que eu queria destacar
é que a gente tem um grande salão
141
00:10:51,640 –> 00:10:53,960
que foi construído
no miolo do prédio antigo
142
00:10:54,040 –> 00:10:56,800
com as quatro colunas de concreto,
uma delas está aqui.
143
00:10:57,200 –> 00:10:59,240
Isso é novo, isso é existente.
144
00:10:59,520 –> 00:11:03,800
E um pé direto duplo,
então esse vazio central permitiu
145
00:11:03,880 –> 00:11:08,080
não apenas espaços amplos na horizontal,
mas espaços amplos na vertical
146
00:11:08,440 –> 00:11:10,160
que um edifício publico precisa.
147
00:11:20,000 –> 00:11:22,560
Aqui é a espera da odontologia,
148
00:11:22,640 –> 00:11:26,560
mas tem uma coisa aqui
que eu acho que é super bacana de destacar
149
00:11:27,160 –> 00:11:32,320
que é o fato de, nessa variedade toda
de usos e às vezes até de soluções,
150
00:11:32,880 –> 00:11:34,960
a gente ter alguns elementos comuns.
151
00:11:35,400 –> 00:11:37,280
Eu já falei das rampas, da fachada.
152
00:11:37,640 –> 00:11:41,040
O outro elemento que eu acho
que é muito importante para costurar tudo
153
00:11:41,120 –> 00:11:43,960
é o mobiliário,
que esse mobiliário está em toda parte.
154
00:11:56,640 –> 00:12:02,240
Nós começamos o projeto em 2001,
terminamos em 2009, ele parou, continuou,
155
00:12:02,960 –> 00:12:05,760
e a obra mesmo terminou em 2017.
156
00:12:05,840 –> 00:12:09,480
E o mundo mudou muito nesses 15 anos,
até mais que 15 anos.
157
00:12:09,560 –> 00:12:11,360
Então nós temos aqui a biblioteca.
158
00:12:11,440 –> 00:12:15,440
E quando começamos, era muito comum,
aqui no Brasil pelo menos,
159
00:12:15,920 –> 00:12:21,200
as bibliotecas terem uma área onde se
oferecia internet livre para as pessoas.
160
00:12:21,560 –> 00:12:23,200
Obviamente,
quando o prédio foi inaugurado,
161
00:12:23,280 –> 00:12:26,120
isso já não era mais necessário,
a internet está no bolso.
162
00:12:26,480 –> 00:12:30,800
Aí surgiu um novo programa
que dá umas imagens muito bonitas
163
00:12:30,880 –> 00:12:35,920
que é arte e tecnologia
no lugar dessa sala de internet livre.
164
00:12:36,000 –> 00:12:39,800
Obviamente, esse prédio tem que ser,
antes de qualquer outra coisa,
165
00:12:39,880 –> 00:12:43,040
um belo contêiner ou um continente
166
00:12:43,120 –> 00:12:45,600
para conteúdos
que vão variar ao longo do tempo.
167
00:12:45,680 –> 00:12:49,040
Cada vez mais, os usos vão ser mutantes.
168
00:12:49,640 –> 00:12:52,200
Então no fundo,
hoje a tarefa da arquitetura,
169
00:12:52,280 –> 00:12:56,000
que eu acho que aqui
foi feita apropriadamente,
170
00:12:56,080 –> 00:12:58,240
é criar uma infraestrutura,
171
00:12:58,560 –> 00:13:03,640
o prédio vira quase que um hardware
para softwares variados que vão surgindo.
172
00:13:11,560 –> 00:13:12,920
Aqui no centro,
173
00:13:13,000 –> 00:13:17,040
o Gleuson já comentou
sobre a beleza de ter um mirante
174
00:13:17,120 –> 00:13:19,160
aberto ao público lá no alto,
175
00:13:20,040 –> 00:13:23,800
nos pareceu também que,
como é um prédio muito fechadão,
176
00:13:23,880 –> 00:13:27,960
em uma área muito construída,
que seria bonito deixar um andar livre,
177
00:13:28,040 –> 00:13:31,480
sem janelas, como se fosse
uma espécie de jardim dentro do prédio.
178
00:13:31,560 –> 00:13:34,680
É um jardim no sentido metafórico,
não tem nenhuma vegetação,
179
00:13:35,040 –> 00:13:39,920
mas é um andar totalmente aberto
e é nesse andar que as pessoas vêm da rua
180
00:13:40,360 –> 00:13:43,760
às vezes descansar, é quase
como se fosse uma marquise da cidade,
181
00:13:43,840 –> 00:13:47,800
um chão muito urbano,
um chão muito da cidade
182
00:13:47,880 –> 00:13:51,520
aqui em cima, tomando essa brisa,
esse ar fresco, o Brasil é quente,
183
00:13:51,800 –> 00:13:54,280
onde as pessoas descansam,
principalmente depois do almoço.
184
00:13:59,760 –> 00:14:02,920
Aqui nós colocamos
como mobiliário esses praticáveis,
185
00:14:03,200 –> 00:14:07,040
que são os módulos
que servem de bancos, servem de cama,
186
00:14:07,120 –> 00:14:11,360
servem de palco, servem de arquibancada,
e a cada dia que eu venho aqui,
187
00:14:11,440 –> 00:14:13,680
a disposição deles está de um jeito.
188
00:14:14,480 –> 00:14:17,640
Eu já vi gente dormindo nesses móveis.
189
00:14:20,040 –> 00:14:23,120
Esse é um andar
em que dá para ver bem as três alas.
190
00:14:23,200 –> 00:14:26,240
Tem uma viga invertida,
aquela mureta é estrutural,
191
00:14:26,320 –> 00:14:31,360
a gente não pode derrubar,
separando o L da terceira perna do U.
192
00:14:32,000 –> 00:14:36,440
E aí a gente aproveitou essa viga
que está dos dois lados para apoiar mesas
193
00:14:37,360 –> 00:14:40,120
que acabam até sendo
os lugares mais disputados,
194
00:14:40,200 –> 00:14:43,040
onde tem tomada,
onde as pessoas podem trabalhar.
195
00:14:49,640 –> 00:14:55,040
Essa é uma região
que tem diversas galerias comerciais
196
00:14:55,120 –> 00:15:00,960
que são esses edifícios verticais
que têm as lojas e outros usos
197
00:15:01,040 –> 00:15:05,200
e que também têm esses espaços
que são terraços, espaços de estar.
198
00:15:05,680 –> 00:15:11,640
E aqui de frente tem a galeria Presidente
que é conhecida como a galeria do reggae.
199
00:15:11,720 –> 00:15:18,040
E esse andar fica justamente na mesma cota
que um dos andares da galeria do reggae,
200
00:15:18,120 –> 00:15:21,720
então tem essa situação
de ter o estar desse lado
201
00:15:21,800 –> 00:15:24,200
e ter o estar
do outro lado da rua também.
202
00:15:33,120 –> 00:15:36,920
Foi uma decisão clara nossa
de expor todas as instalações.
203
00:15:38,360 –> 00:15:42,720
O prédio existente não permitia
um ajuste muito previsível,
204
00:15:42,800 –> 00:15:47,560
já estava dado, então para não ter
esse conflito de instalações
205
00:15:47,640 –> 00:15:50,880
que não deveriam aparecer,
resolvemos que apareceriam todas,
206
00:15:51,160 –> 00:15:53,040
o que é muito bom para manutenção.
207
00:15:55,760 –> 00:15:57,840
XXX
208
00:16:03,320 –> 00:16:06,040
Isso aqui que a gente
está vendo é a fila do restaurante,
209
00:16:07,200 –> 00:16:11,440
que é um restaurante super capaz,
oferece muitas refeições.
210
00:16:11,520 –> 00:16:13,360
É um grande restaurante, não é pequeno.
211
00:16:13,440 –> 00:16:16,840
É proporcional
à importância da instituição
212
00:16:17,200 –> 00:16:20,200
mas como o preço é muito bom,
há um certo subsídio
213
00:16:20,280 –> 00:16:23,240
e como a comida parece que agrada,
214
00:16:24,680 –> 00:16:29,240
todos os dias
há uma fila razoável, respeitável.
215
00:16:38,600 –> 00:16:43,880
Aqui é a espera da administração,
que está em uma ala inteira
216
00:16:44,160 –> 00:16:47,040
na fachada da rua 24 de Maio.
217
00:16:47,640 –> 00:16:50,280
É agradável, né,
todo mundo trabalhando junto da janela,
218
00:16:50,880 –> 00:16:54,080
e é um vazio, quer dizer,
ali está o vazio da entrada.
219
00:16:54,160 –> 00:16:56,560
O que a gente está vendo ali
é a obra da Carmela Gross
220
00:16:56,640 –> 00:17:00,400
recortada pelo guarda-corpo
e a caixa d’água,
221
00:17:00,480 –> 00:17:03,960
são duas células de água
que ficam bem no meio do salão.
222
00:17:04,040 –> 00:17:08,000
É uma coisa curiosa
porque não tinha um lugar melhor para pôr,
223
00:17:08,080 –> 00:17:09,120
então ficou lá mesmo.
224
00:17:16,440 –> 00:17:20,880
As primeiras decisões do Paulo foram
piscina na cobertura, teatro no subsolo.
225
00:17:20,960 –> 00:17:24,760
Mas esses quatro pilares
cravados lá embaixo
226
00:17:24,840 –> 00:17:30,920
em uma profundidade adequada,
permitiu escavar abaixo do nível da rua
227
00:17:31,000 –> 00:17:38,120
para fazer a plateia de um teatro,
que inclusive fica muito bem lá embaixo
228
00:17:38,200 –> 00:17:40,800
saindo no térreo porque tem autonomia.
229
00:17:40,880 –> 00:17:43,600
O teatro pode funcionar
até meia note, uma hora.
230
00:17:44,040 –> 00:17:46,000
E um teatro e um café, fizemos.
231
00:17:47,320 –> 00:17:48,640
Eu quero um café.
232
00:17:55,160 –> 00:17:57,760
Eu vou querer… pode ser um café.
233
00:18:02,920 –> 00:18:04,520
Fazia tempo que eu não vinha no sábado,
234
00:18:04,600 –> 00:18:05,920
no sábado é mais movimentando.
235
00:18:08,240 –> 00:18:13,960
Eu achei muito interessante
um termo que a Bienal de Arquitetura
236
00:18:14,400 –> 00:18:19,920
está utilizando e o edifício propõe
que é o da máquina urbana.
237
00:18:20,520 –> 00:18:24,600
Eu acho que é isso,
o edifício é essa grande máquina,
238
00:18:24,680 –> 00:18:30,800
esse compartimento
que está sempre em mudança.
239
00:18:30,880 –> 00:18:34,280
Embora seja uma unidade,
um edifício, uma instituição,
240
00:18:34,360 –> 00:18:39,360
mas ele é só um suporte,
um abrigo para os mais variados usos
241
00:18:39,440 –> 00:18:44,240
e esse uso muda tanto ao longo do dia
como ao longo dos dias da semana
242
00:18:44,320 –> 00:18:46,400
ao longo do ano também.
243
00:18:56,480 –> 00:19:00,400
E o que eu acho muito bacana destacar
é que o centro é cheio de galerias,
244
00:19:00,760 –> 00:19:05,040
essas passagens urbanas, ruas cobertas,
passagens por dentro de edifícios,
245
00:19:05,400 –> 00:19:07,000
e o SESC é mais uma dessas.
246
00:19:07,600 –> 00:19:10,760
Você pode passar de um lado ao outro
sem nenhum controle,
247
00:19:10,840 –> 00:19:12,720
não há uma porta, não há uma portaria.
248
00:19:13,240 –> 00:19:17,440
Isso faz com que o prédio
seja muito aberto à população vizinha.
249
00:19:18,040 –> 00:19:21,280
O centro de São Paulo
é um lugar muito democrático,
250
00:19:21,960 –> 00:19:27,360
uma qualidade urbana razoável,
então aqui aparece a cidade verdadeira,
251
00:19:27,720 –> 00:19:30,000
as pessoas mais pobres,
as pessoas mais ricas,
252
00:19:30,080 –> 00:19:33,800
é um lugar plural e é muito comum
as pessoas mais pobres
253
00:19:33,880 –> 00:19:36,400
não se sentirem
no direito de entrar nos lugares,
254
00:19:37,120 –> 00:19:39,680
mesmo em lugres públicos,
instituições públicas,
255
00:19:39,760 –> 00:19:44,280
quando essa relação do edifício com a rua
é menos franca, menos aberta.
256
00:19:44,720 –> 00:19:47,680
No SESC não, elas entram,
nós vimos lá na convivência
257
00:19:48,120 –> 00:19:52,480
muita gente que está simplesmente
descansando porque não tem para onde ir
258
00:19:52,760 –> 00:19:55,960
e que acaba aproveitando
que esse é um prédio tão aberto
259
00:19:56,040 –> 00:19:59,440
e tão convidativo
e acaba entrando no prédio.
260
00:19:59,840 –> 00:20:04,040
Eu acho isso uma das coisas
mais bonitas aqui do projeto do SESC.
French Subtitles
1
00:00:12,840 –> 00:00:17,520
Il vaudrait mieux d’abord
expliquer ce qu’est le SESC.
2
00:00:18,320 –> 00:00:25,280
C’est une institution patronale
où des employeurs commerciaux, des patrons
3
00:00:25,840 –> 00:00:32,320
versent une somme importante,
comme l’exige la loi,
4
00:00:32,400 –> 00:00:38,240
tout commerce est tenu
de payer un impôt dans ce but,
5
00:00:39,200 –> 00:00:46,000
pour financer le SESC,
qui signifie Service Social du Commerce.
6
00:00:47,160 –> 00:00:52,560
Des attractions récréatives
et éducatives pour les employés,
7
00:00:52,960 –> 00:00:56,160
donc, les subordonnés,
les employés du commerce.
8
00:01:04,800 –> 00:01:08,960
Ils ont donc construit des bâtiments
9
00:01:09,640 –> 00:01:15,880
où ils investissent des fortunes,
de grands investissements dans des terres
10
00:01:15,960 –> 00:01:21,800
qu’ils savent facilement accessibles
par transports publics, métro, etc.
11
00:01:21,880 –> 00:01:26,920
Et ils appellent les architectes
qu’ils considèrent
12
00:01:28,120 –> 00:01:30,680
les plus compétents pour ces projets,
13
00:01:30,760 –> 00:01:35,760
qui sont ensuite réalisés et agrandis
en fonction du développement
14
00:01:36,560 –> 00:01:38,280
de toutes les villes brésiliennes.
15
00:01:39,400 –> 00:01:43,040
São Paulo étant une ville
de 20 millions d’habitants,
16
00:01:43,560 –> 00:01:47,160
vous devinez combien
d’unités SESC s’y trouvent,
17
00:01:47,240 –> 00:01:49,400
et leur importance ici.
18
00:01:50,120 –> 00:01:53,320
C’est exactement ce qui s’est passé
pour le SESC 24 de Maio.
19
00:01:53,400 –> 00:01:58,360
Un grand magasin
dans un bâtiment de 15 étages
20
00:01:58,440 –> 00:02:00,000
désaffecté depuis longtemps
21
00:02:00,080 –> 00:02:02,880
a été acheté pour transformer le bâtiment
22
00:02:03,520 –> 00:02:06,200
situé en plein centre de São Paulo,
23
00:02:06,280 –> 00:02:12,120
un bâtiment pouvant abriter ce programme
qui vient du SESC, non de l’architecte.
24
00:02:12,640 –> 00:02:15,760
Comme les autres unités SESC,
ce bâtiment a plusieurs fonctions :
25
00:02:16,040 –> 00:02:19,080
sport, culture, loisirs.
26
00:02:19,400 –> 00:02:23,920
Culture, arts visuels, théâtre, danse…
beaucoup de choses.
27
00:02:24,320 –> 00:02:28,080
C’est un bâtiment à programme public,
28
00:02:28,160 –> 00:02:30,280
et on sait qu’un programme public
29
00:02:30,560 –> 00:02:33,760
est amélioré
quand il y a continuité spatiale,
30
00:02:33,840 –> 00:02:36,560
une relation entre les choses,
entre les gens.
31
00:02:36,640 –> 00:02:39,640
Les choses se contaminent positivement,
elles s’activent.
32
00:02:40,080 –> 00:02:43,360
Et quand on est
dans une organisation spatiale verticale,
33
00:02:43,440 –> 00:02:46,440
la continuité spatiale
est plus difficile à obtenir.
34
00:02:46,720 –> 00:02:52,520
Ce qui a été fait ici, c’est presque
comme empiler des bâtiments horizontaux
35
00:02:52,920 –> 00:02:57,560
et chacun de ces équipements, par exemple,
la piscine, prend plusieurs étages.
36
00:02:57,640 –> 00:03:02,760
Le bassin et le solarium de la piscine
sont au dernier étage, sur le toit,
37
00:03:03,120 –> 00:03:07,160
c’est l’image la plus connue
du SESC 24 de Maio.
38
00:03:07,240 –> 00:03:10,640
Le bassin est très grand,
il occupe un étage entier.
39
00:03:10,720 –> 00:03:12,840
À côté, il y a les vestiaires
et en dessous,
40
00:03:12,920 –> 00:03:15,920
là où nous sommes,
se trouve le jardin de piscine,
41
00:03:16,160 –> 00:03:19,040
les nageurs ont ainsi
le soleil et l’ombre.
42
00:03:19,520 –> 00:03:22,920
Ainsi, une zone
qui n’est pas très grande dans le plan,
43
00:03:23,000 –> 00:03:25,840
dans un bâtiment vertical
qui ne peut être agrandi,
44
00:03:25,920 –> 00:03:27,800
devient une grande zone.
45
00:03:28,240 –> 00:03:32,520
Et pour qu’il y ait cette association,
il doit y avoir des éléments communs.
46
00:03:32,600 –> 00:03:34,120
Cette eau en bas,
47
00:03:34,200 –> 00:03:38,240
où vont surtout les enfants,
c’est leur piscine,
48
00:03:38,320 –> 00:03:42,000
ça fait comprendre aux gens
que tout ça forme un tout.
49
00:03:45,160 –> 00:03:48,520
Pour moi, c’est une situation
très intéressante,
50
00:03:48,600 –> 00:03:52,840
Milton a déjà évoqué
le nom de cet étage où nous étions,
51
00:03:52,920 –> 00:03:56,120
le jardin de piscine,
le fait que le centre-ville
52
00:03:56,200 –> 00:03:58,720
a très peu de jardins,
53
00:03:58,800 –> 00:04:04,480
et l’utilisation des toits des bâtiments
avec accès public.
54
00:04:05,080 –> 00:04:12,400
Dans cette partie de la ville,
le SESC devient un belvédère à accès libre
55
00:04:12,480 –> 00:04:21,880
et l’installation est largement utilisée
par le public qui vient au centre-ville.
56
00:04:21,960 –> 00:04:25,040
Il est clair que l’architecture
peut aussi créer d’autres ressources
57
00:04:25,320 –> 00:04:31,440
qui établissent cette connexion,
ce sentiment ou continuité spatiale.
58
00:04:31,840 –> 00:04:37,200
Dans ce cas, sur ce vide
où coule l’eau de la piscine,
59
00:04:37,560 –> 00:04:39,560
on entend aussi le bruit des baigneurs,
60
00:04:39,640 –> 00:04:42,640
il est très important
de créer cette relation.
61
00:04:48,080 –> 00:04:52,440
L’organisation de la construction
vaut la peine d’être mentionnée.
62
00:04:53,520 –> 00:04:55,160
Comme chacun le sait peut-être,
63
00:04:55,240 –> 00:04:58,560
le SESC 24 de Maio a profité
du vieux bâtiment Mesbla,
64
00:04:58,840 –> 00:05:00,400
un bâtiment de…
65
00:05:00,480 –> 00:05:05,320
Mesbla était un grand magasin qui occupait
le rez-de-chaussée, deux mezzanines,
66
00:05:05,880 –> 00:05:10,280
un dôme et au-dessus,
il y avait des bureaux d’affaires
67
00:05:10,560 –> 00:05:12,240
et une structure en U.
68
00:05:12,320 –> 00:05:15,320
À l’origine, il était en L
et dix ans plus tard,
69
00:05:15,400 –> 00:05:17,360
une troisième partie a été construite.
70
00:05:17,440 –> 00:05:20,280
Ce devait être dans les années 1940, 1950.
71
00:05:20,600 –> 00:05:21,960
Plein de colonnes.
72
00:05:22,480 –> 00:05:26,760
La première fois que nous sommes
venus ici avec Paulo Mendes,
73
00:05:27,080 –> 00:05:30,160
il a vu un bâtiment minuscule,
74
00:05:30,560 –> 00:05:35,280
7 mètres sur 25, un petit paquet,
un bâtiment conçu pour être un restaurant,
75
00:05:35,640 –> 00:05:40,680
très difficile à réutiliser,
car il était petit et disproportionné
76
00:05:40,760 –> 00:05:44,400
par rapport au reste et Paulo a dit :
« Ça ne marchera pas.
77
00:05:44,480 –> 00:05:47,400
Le mieux à faire pour le SESC
est de l’acheter
78
00:05:47,480 –> 00:05:49,440
pour l’intégrer à l’autre bâtiment. »
79
00:05:49,520 –> 00:05:53,840
On peut dire qu’il a été possible
de faire ce que le SESC souhaitait
80
00:05:54,240 –> 00:05:58,640
grâce à la stratégie d’achat de la terre
à côté, comme annexe,
81
00:05:58,720 –> 00:06:04,160
car dans cette petite zone
séparée de trois mètres,
82
00:06:04,240 –> 00:06:07,240
des passerelles ont été construites
à chaque étage.
83
00:06:07,320 –> 00:06:09,240
Dans cette petite annexe,
84
00:06:09,320 –> 00:06:11,680
qui n’est après tout pas si petite,
85
00:06:12,600 –> 00:06:19,000
chaque étage fait 150 mètres carrés,
l’ensemble des installations sanitaires,
86
00:06:19,080 –> 00:06:23,920
réservoirs d’eau,
machines de réfrigération,
87
00:06:24,000 –> 00:06:29,360
climatiseurs, équipements de cuisine,
congélateurs, etc., y sont situés.
88
00:06:29,640 –> 00:06:35,360
Les ascenseurs de service
ont des sorties du côté rue,
89
00:06:35,840 –> 00:06:39,800
ce qui soulage totalement l’autre bâtiment
90
00:06:40,440 –> 00:06:44,760
de ces fardeaux de service secondaires.
91
00:06:45,200 –> 00:06:49,280
C’est très beau,
car c’est comme un voisin tout proche
92
00:06:49,360 –> 00:06:52,920
qui sort de la régularité
du terrain d’origine.
93
00:07:01,760 –> 00:07:08,120
Sur le site d’origine, la troisième aile
avait une série de petits escaliers
94
00:07:08,200 –> 00:07:11,960
et d’ascenseurs ici même,
là où nous sommes,
95
00:07:12,360 –> 00:07:15,000
où nous avons voulu construire
96
00:07:15,080 –> 00:07:18,280
une nouvelle installation
pour faciliter le déplacement des gens
97
00:07:18,640 –> 00:07:20,840
et laisser autant d’espaces vides
que possible.
98
00:07:27,880 –> 00:07:31,840
Ces vides sont les images
les plus remarquables de ce bâtiment,
99
00:07:31,920 –> 00:07:34,720
à la fois quand on regarde
vers le haut et vers le bas.
100
00:07:34,800 –> 00:07:38,880
Si les gens qui vont au théâtre regardent
vers le haut, ils voient le ciel.
101
00:07:42,680 –> 00:07:45,200
Nous avons fait une rampe continue
pour donner l’idée
102
00:07:45,280 –> 00:07:49,000
d’une ville en développement,
si on ne veut pas prendre l’ascenseur,
103
00:07:49,080 –> 00:07:51,640
on peut marcher lentement jusqu’en haut.
104
00:07:57,160 –> 00:07:59,600
Les rampes qu’on voit dans le fond
105
00:08:00,280 –> 00:08:05,240
sont peut-être l’élément architectural
le plus important du projet,
106
00:08:05,680 –> 00:08:08,680
car les rampes, avec cette façade
107
00:08:09,000 –> 00:08:10,800
au design très fort,
108
00:08:11,280 –> 00:08:14,480
constituent la façade la plus importante,
car c’est l’image la plus présente
109
00:08:14,560 –> 00:08:16,120
pour les usagers du SESC.
110
00:08:16,440 –> 00:08:20,000
Elle est importante et présente,
car on la voit de chaque étage.
111
00:08:28,360 –> 00:08:32,440
Il serait possible de laisser
toute cette façade partiellement ouverte,
112
00:08:32,960 –> 00:08:37,680
c’est-à-dire avec un toit mais sans murs,
mais il y a la pluie, le vent, etc.
113
00:08:38,320 –> 00:08:40,880
Nous avons donc décidé de la vitrer.
114
00:08:41,680 –> 00:08:43,840
En même temps, il faut qu’elle respire,
115
00:08:44,240 –> 00:08:47,200
il est facile de laisser un petit espace
116
00:08:47,280 –> 00:08:49,680
résistant au vent
entre les panneaux de verre.
117
00:08:50,080 –> 00:08:56,240
Ensuite, on fait venir les ingénieurs
pour aider à parvenir au résultat.
118
00:08:56,720 –> 00:09:00,440
Et s’il était possible
que ces panneaux de verre
119
00:09:00,760 –> 00:09:04,080
ne fassent pas qu’imiter
simplement un bâtiment,
120
00:09:04,160 –> 00:09:07,600
la façade d’un bâtiment ?
Nous avons alors imaginé
121
00:09:07,680 –> 00:09:11,840
une structure de grille en treillis,
122
00:09:11,920 –> 00:09:14,920
et ça nous a donné ce résultat
assez gracieux, non ?
123
00:09:15,880 –> 00:09:19,000
C’est une façade transparente qui respire,
124
00:09:20,240 –> 00:09:24,080
au sens de la ventilation naturelle,
ce genre de chose.
125
00:09:27,200 –> 00:09:32,000
Le fait de préserver cette structure
a été un test important pour comprendre
126
00:09:32,800 –> 00:09:35,320
que nous n’avions pas
à tout reconstruire ici,
127
00:09:35,400 –> 00:09:40,160
nous pouvons recycler,
tirer parti de ce qui est déjà là.
128
00:09:40,680 –> 00:09:43,960
Et en tirant parti de cette structure,
129
00:09:44,760 –> 00:09:50,320
il y a eu bien moins de déchets,
nous en avons peu généré.
130
00:09:50,600 –> 00:09:55,440
Nous avons profité de la structure
et des fondations existantes.
131
00:09:55,520 –> 00:09:59,400
Tout ce qui est neuf est de l’acier
ou du granulat de béton apparent
132
00:09:59,800 –> 00:10:02,480
et le préexistant est peint en blanc.
133
00:10:03,320 –> 00:10:07,240
Nous verrons aussi
que dans cette structure originale en U,
134
00:10:07,320 –> 00:10:13,120
on a construit quatre colonnes au centre
pour structurer la nouvelle partie,
135
00:10:13,200 –> 00:10:18,800
grosso modo, qui a fini par abriter
les espaces les plus importants,
136
00:10:18,880 –> 00:10:21,040
espaces qui dépendent de grands vides.
137
00:10:34,240 –> 00:10:39,200
On voit ici toutes ces colonnes blanches
dans l’aile préexistante,
138
00:10:39,280 –> 00:10:41,000
voici la nouvelle partie
avec moins de colonnes,
139
00:10:41,080 –> 00:10:42,880
les autres parties en ont encore plus.
140
00:10:43,840 –> 00:10:47,000
On voit comme c’est beau,
c’est comme un film, un festival.
141
00:10:47,080 –> 00:10:48,760
Il y a un cours de gym par là.
142
00:10:48,840 –> 00:10:51,560
Mais je voulais souligner
que nous avons une grande salle
143
00:10:51,640 –> 00:10:53,960
construite dans le centre
du vieux bâtiment,
144
00:10:54,040 –> 00:10:56,800
avec quatre colonnes de béton,
dont en voici une.
145
00:10:57,200 –> 00:10:59,240
Celle-ci est neuve, celle-là est ancienne.
146
00:10:59,520 –> 00:11:03,800
Les plafonds sont très hauts,
ce vide central nous a donc permis d’avoir
147
00:11:03,880 –> 00:11:08,080
de vastes espaces non seulement
horizontaux, mais aussi verticaux,
148
00:11:08,440 –> 00:11:10,160
nécessaires dans un bâtiment public.
149
00:11:20,000 –> 00:11:22,560
Ici, c’est la salle d’attente du dentiste,
150
00:11:22,640 –> 00:11:26,560
mais il y a quelque chose ici
de très sympa que je veux souligner,
151
00:11:27,160 –> 00:11:32,320
c’est le fait qu’avec la diversité
des usages et des solutions,
152
00:11:32,880 –> 00:11:34,960
il y a des éléments communs.
153
00:11:35,400 –> 00:11:37,280
J’ai parlé des rampes et de la façade.
154
00:11:37,640 –> 00:11:41,040
L’autre élément que je trouve important
pour tout relier,
155
00:11:41,120 –> 00:11:43,960
c’est le mobilier qu’on retrouve partout.
156
00:11:56,640 –> 00:11:59,120
Nous avons commencé le projet en 2001,
157
00:11:59,200 –> 00:12:02,240
l’avons terminé en 2009,
il s’est arrêté, a repris
158
00:12:02,960 –> 00:12:05,760
et la construction s’est finie en 2017.
159
00:12:05,840 –> 00:12:09,480
Pendant ces 15 années ou plus,
le monde a beaucoup changé.
160
00:12:09,560 –> 00:12:11,360
Il y a ici une bibliothèque.
161
00:12:11,440 –> 00:12:15,440
Quand le projet a commencé,
il était courant, du moins au Brésil,
162
00:12:15,920 –> 00:12:21,200
que les bibliothèques aient une zone
offrant de l’Internet gratuit.
163
00:12:21,560 –> 00:12:23,200
Naturellement, à l’inauguration,
164
00:12:23,280 –> 00:12:26,120
ce n’était plus nécessaire,
on a désormais Internet en poche.
165
00:12:26,480 –> 00:12:30,800
Un nouveau programme créant
de belles images a été introduit,
166
00:12:30,880 –> 00:12:35,920
nommé « art et technologie »
à la place de la salle d’Internet gratuit.
167
00:12:36,000 –> 00:12:39,800
Naturellement, ce bâtiment
doit être avant toute chose
168
00:12:39,880 –> 00:12:43,040
un beau container ou contenant,
169
00:12:43,120 –> 00:12:45,600
pour des contenus
qui varieront avec le temps.
170
00:12:45,680 –> 00:12:49,040
L’utilisation d’un bâtiment
changera de plus en plus.
171
00:12:49,640 –> 00:12:52,200
Donc, le rôle
de l’architecture aujourd’hui,
172
00:12:52,280 –> 00:12:56,000
ce qui, je crois,
a été fait correctement ici,
173
00:12:56,080 –> 00:12:58,240
c’est de créer une infrastructure,
174
00:12:58,560 –> 00:13:00,600
le bâtiment devient
un matériel informatique
175
00:13:00,680 –> 00:13:03,640
dont émergent différents programmes.
176
00:13:11,560 –> 00:13:12,920
Ici, dans le centre-ville,
177
00:13:13,000 –> 00:13:17,040
Gleuson a déjà évoqué la beauté
d’avoir un belvédère
178
00:13:17,120 –> 00:13:19,160
avec accès public tout en haut,
179
00:13:20,040 –> 00:13:23,800
et il nous a aussi semblé
qu’en tant que bâtiment fermé
180
00:13:23,880 –> 00:13:27,960
dans une zone surconstruite,
ce serait bien de laisser un niveau ouvert
181
00:13:28,040 –> 00:13:31,480
sans fenêtres, comme une sorte
de jardin dans le bâtiment.
182
00:13:31,560 –> 00:13:34,680
C’est un jardin au sens métaphorique,
il n’a pas de végétation,
183
00:13:35,040 –> 00:13:39,920
mais c’est un niveau complètement ouvert
et c’est là où les gens viennent
184
00:13:40,360 –> 00:13:43,760
parfois se reposer,
c’est comme une tonnelle en ville,
185
00:13:43,840 –> 00:13:47,800
un niveau très urbain,
très semblable à une ville,
186
00:13:47,880 –> 00:13:51,520
où les gens peuvent sentir cette brise,
cet air frais, il fait chaud au Brésil.
187
00:13:51,800 –> 00:13:54,280
Les gens viennent s’y reposer,
surtout après le déjeuner.
188
00:13:59,760 –> 00:14:02,920
Nous avons placé ici
ce mobilier fonctionnel,
189
00:14:03,200 –> 00:14:07,040
ce sont ces modules
qui servent de banc, de lit,
190
00:14:07,120 –> 00:14:11,360
de scène, d’estrade,
et chaque fois que je viens,
191
00:14:11,440 –> 00:14:13,680
ils sont disposés différemment.
192
00:14:14,480 –> 00:14:17,640
J’ai vu des gens dormir sur ce mobilier.
193
00:14:20,040 –> 00:14:23,120
Depuis ce niveau,
on voit très bien les trois ailes.
194
00:14:23,200 –> 00:14:26,240
Il y a une poutre inversée,
ce mur est structurel,
195
00:14:26,320 –> 00:14:31,360
on ne peut pas le faire tomber,
séparant le L de la troisième partie du U.
196
00:14:32,000 –> 00:14:36,440
On a donc tiré parti de cette poutre
des deux côtés pour fixer des tables
197
00:14:37,360 –> 00:14:40,120
qui sont devenues
l’espace le plus convoité,
198
00:14:40,200 –> 00:14:43,040
il y a des prises,
les gens peuvent y travailler.
199
00:14:49,640 –> 00:14:55,040
C’est une zone
qui a plusieurs galeries commerciales,
200
00:14:55,120 –> 00:15:00,960
ce sont ces bâtiments verticaux
avec des magasins et autres installations,
201
00:15:01,040 –> 00:15:05,200
ainsi que des terrasses,
des espaces de vie extérieurs.
202
00:15:05,680 –> 00:15:11,640
La galerie du Président est juste devant,
on l’appelle la galerie du reggae.
203
00:15:11,720 –> 00:15:18,040
Cet étage est exactement au même niveau
que l’un des étages de la galerie,
204
00:15:18,120 –> 00:15:21,720
il y a donc un espace de vie
extérieur de ce côté
205
00:15:21,800 –> 00:15:24,200
et un espace de vie extérieur
de l’autre côté aussi.
206
00:15:33,120 –> 00:15:36,920
Nous avons clairement décidé
d’exposer toutes les installations.
207
00:15:38,360 –> 00:15:42,720
Le bâtiment préexistant ne permettait pas
une adaptation très prévisible,
208
00:15:42,800 –> 00:15:47,560
il était déjà en place, alors pour éviter
un conflit entre installations
209
00:15:47,640 –> 00:15:50,880
qui devraient être invisibles,
nous avons décidé que tout serait visible,
210
00:15:51,160 –> 00:15:53,040
et c’est très bien pour l’entretien.
211
00:15:55,760 –> 00:15:57,840
ZONE RESTAURANT
212
00:16:03,320 –> 00:16:06,040
On voit ici la file du restaurant,
213
00:16:07,200 –> 00:16:11,440
c’est un restaurant très efficace
qui sert de nombreux repas.
214
00:16:11,520 –> 00:16:13,360
C’est un très grand restaurant.
215
00:16:13,440 –> 00:16:16,840
Il est proportionnel
à l’importance de l’institution,
216
00:16:17,200 –> 00:16:20,200
mais il propose de bons prix,
il y a une subvention
217
00:16:20,280 –> 00:16:23,240
et comme la nourriture semble attractive,
218
00:16:24,680 –> 00:16:29,240
il y a tous les jours une file
de taille respectable.
219
00:16:38,600 –> 00:16:43,880
Voici la salle d’attente administrative
qui prend une salle entière
220
00:16:44,160 –> 00:16:47,040
sur la façade de la rue 24 de Maio.
221
00:16:47,640 –> 00:16:50,280
C’est très sympa,
on travaille près de la fenêtre
222
00:16:50,880 –> 00:16:54,080
et c’est un vide, c’est-à-dire,
c’est le vide d’entrée.
223
00:16:54,160 –> 00:16:56,560
On voit là le travail de Carmela Gross
224
00:16:56,640 –> 00:17:00,400
couvert en partie par la rambarde
et le réservoir d’eau,
225
00:17:00,480 –> 00:17:03,960
il y a deux réservoirs d’eau
en plein milieu de l’espace.
226
00:17:04,040 –> 00:17:08,000
C’est curieux, car il n’y avait pas
de meilleur endroit pour le mettre,
227
00:17:08,080 –> 00:17:09,120
donc il est resté là.
228
00:17:16,440 –> 00:17:18,640
Les premières décisions de Paulo ont été
229
00:17:18,720 –> 00:17:20,880
d’avoir une piscine de toit
et un théâtre souterrain.
230
00:17:20,960 –> 00:17:24,760
Ces quatre colonnes sculptées en bas
231
00:17:24,840 –> 00:17:30,920
à une profondeur adéquate nous ont permis
de creuser sous le niveau de la rue
232
00:17:31,000 –> 00:17:38,120
pour construire le théâtre
qui est en fait plutôt beau
233
00:17:38,200 –> 00:17:40,800
avec sa sortie au rez-de-chaussée,
ce qui crée de l’autonomie.
234
00:17:40,880 –> 00:17:43,600
Le théâtre peut fonctionner
jusqu’à minuit, une heure.
235
00:17:44,040 –> 00:17:46,000
On a construit un théâtre et un café.
236
00:17:47,320 –> 00:17:48,640
J’aimerais un café.
237
00:17:55,160 –> 00:17:57,760
J’aimerais… disons un café.
238
00:18:02,920 –> 00:18:04,520
Je viens rarement le samedi.
239
00:18:04,600 –> 00:18:05,920
C’est plus fréquenté.
240
00:18:08,240 –> 00:18:13,960
J’ai trouvé un terme très intéressant
utilisé par la Biennale d’architecture
241
00:18:14,400 –> 00:18:19,920
sur l’usage de ce qu’offre le bâtiment,
c’est « machine urbaine ».
242
00:18:20,520 –> 00:18:24,600
Pour moi, c’est ça,
le bâtiment est une grande machine,
243
00:18:24,680 –> 00:18:30,800
un compartiment
qui change perpétuellement.
244
00:18:30,880 –> 00:18:34,280
Bien que ce soit une installation,
un bâtiment, une institution,
245
00:18:34,360 –> 00:18:39,360
ce n’est qu’un moyen,
un abri pour les usages les plus variés,
246
00:18:39,440 –> 00:18:44,240
et cet usage change dans la journée,
selon les jours de la semaine
247
00:18:44,320 –> 00:18:46,400
et aussi tout au long de l’année.
248
00:18:56,480 –> 00:19:00,400
J’aime souligner
que cet endroit est plein de galeries,
249
00:19:00,760 –> 00:19:05,040
passages urbains, rues couvertes,
passages à l’intérieur des bâtiments,
250
00:19:05,400 –> 00:19:07,000
et le SESC en est un.
251
00:19:07,600 –> 00:19:10,760
On peut aller d’un côté à l’autre
sans contrôle,
252
00:19:10,840 –> 00:19:12,720
il n’y a ni porte ni sécurité.
253
00:19:13,240 –> 00:19:17,440
Le bâtiment devient très accueillant
pour la population voisine.
254
00:19:18,040 –> 00:19:21,280
Le centre de São Paulo
est un endroit très démocratique,
255
00:19:21,960 –> 00:19:27,360
il a une qualité urbaine raisonnable,
la vraie ville y est révélée,
256
00:19:27,720 –> 00:19:30,000
les gens les plus pauvres,
les plus riches,
257
00:19:30,080 –> 00:19:33,800
c’est un endroit très pluriel,
et il est courant que les plus pauvres
258
00:19:33,880 –> 00:19:36,400
ne se sentent pas autorisés
à entrer dans des endroits,
259
00:19:37,120 –> 00:19:39,680
même des endroits et institutions publics
260
00:19:39,760 –> 00:19:44,280
quand la relation entre bâtiments et rues
est moins authentique, moins ouverte.
261
00:19:44,720 –> 00:19:47,680
Au SESC, les gens entrent,
on a vu les gens en haut,
262
00:19:48,120 –> 00:19:52,480
beaucoup se reposent simplement,
car ils n’ont nulle part où aller,
263
00:19:52,760 –> 00:19:55,960
et ils profitent d’un bâtiment si ouvert
264
00:19:56,040 –> 00:19:59,440
et accueillant
qu’ils finissent par y entrer.
265
00:19:59,840 –> 00:20:04,040
Pour moi, c’est l’un
des meilleurs aspects du SESC.
English Subtitles
1
00:00:12,840 –> 00:00:17,520
It would be better
to explain what SESC is first.
2
00:00:18,320 –> 00:00:25,280
It is a patronal institution
where commerce employers, the bosses,
3
00:00:25,840 –> 00:00:32,320
pay a large sum of money required by law,
4
00:00:32,400 –> 00:00:38,240
all commerce is obliged
to pay a tax for that purpose,
5
00:00:39,200 –> 00:00:46,000
to fund SESC,
which means Social Service of Commerce.
6
00:00:47,160 –> 00:00:52,560
Educational recreational
attractions for employees,
7
00:00:52,960 –> 00:00:56,160
therefore, the subordinates,
employees from the commerce industry.
8
00:01:04,800 –> 00:01:08,960
So, they build buildings
9
00:01:09,640 –> 00:01:15,880
where they invest fortunes,
high investments in territories and land
10
00:01:15,960 –> 00:01:21,800
they know is easy accessible
by public transport, subway, etc.
11
00:01:21,880 –> 00:01:26,920
And they call architects who they consider
12
00:01:28,120 –> 00:01:30,680
the most capable for these projects,
13
00:01:30,760 –> 00:01:35,760
which are then carried out
and expanded according to the development
14
00:01:36,560 –> 00:01:38,280
of all Brazilian cities.
15
00:01:39,400 –> 00:01:43,040
São Paulo, being a city
with 20 million inhabitants,
16
00:01:43,560 –> 00:01:47,160
you can guess
how many SESC units there are
17
00:01:47,240 –> 00:01:49,400
and its importance here.
18
00:01:50,120 –> 00:01:53,320
Regarding SESC 24 de Maio,
that’s exactly what happened.
19
00:01:53,400 –> 00:01:58,360
A department store in a 15-story building
20
00:01:58,440 –> 00:02:00,000
deactivated a long time ago
21
00:02:00,080 –> 00:02:02,880
was purchased to transform the building
22
00:02:03,520 –> 00:02:06,200
located right in São Paulo’s city center,
23
00:02:06,280 –> 00:02:12,120
a building that could house this program
which isn’t the architect’s, but SESC’s.
24
00:02:12,640 –> 00:02:15,760
Like all other SESC units, this building
is used for different purposes:
25
00:02:16,040 –> 00:02:19,080
sport, culture, leisure.
26
00:02:19,400 –> 00:02:23,920
Culture, visual arts,
theater, dance, a lot of things.
27
00:02:24,320 –> 00:02:28,080
It’s a building with a public program
28
00:02:28,160 –> 00:02:30,280
and we know that a public program
29
00:02:30,560 –> 00:02:33,760
is enhanced
when there is spatial continuity,
30
00:02:33,840 –> 00:02:36,560
a relationship between things,
between people.
31
00:02:36,640 –> 00:02:39,640
One thing contaminates the other
in a good sense, it activates the other.
32
00:02:40,080 –> 00:02:43,360
And when you are
in a vertical spatial organization,
33
00:02:43,440 –> 00:02:46,440
it’s harder to get spatial continuity.
34
00:02:46,720 –> 00:02:52,520
And here, what was done was almost
like stacking horizontal buildings
35
00:02:52,920 –> 00:02:57,560
and each of these features, for example,
the pool, takes up a few floors.
36
00:02:57,640 –> 00:03:02,760
The pool has the tank and the solarium
on the top floor, on the roof,
37
00:03:03,120 –> 00:03:07,160
which is the best known image
of SESC 24 de Maio.
38
00:03:07,240 –> 00:03:10,640
The tank is quite tall,
it occupies an entire floor.
39
00:03:10,720 –> 00:03:12,840
Next to it are the changing rooms
and below,
40
00:03:12,920 –> 00:03:15,920
where we are now, is the pool garden,
41
00:03:16,160 –> 00:03:19,040
it’s the sun and the shade for bathers.
42
00:03:19,520 –> 00:03:22,920
With that, an area that in the blueprint
isn’t very large,
43
00:03:23,000 –> 00:03:25,840
a vertical building
that can’t be expanded,
44
00:03:25,920 –> 00:03:27,800
turns into a large area.
45
00:03:28,240 –> 00:03:32,520
And for it to have this association,
it must have common elements.
46
00:03:32,600 –> 00:03:34,120
This water down here,
47
00:03:34,200 –> 00:03:38,240
especially now that kids go in,
it’s their pool,
48
00:03:38,320 –> 00:03:42,000
it makes people realize
that this is all a single thing.
49
00:03:45,160 –> 00:03:48,520
I think it’s a very interesting situation,
50
00:03:48,600 –> 00:03:52,840
Milton has already mentioned
the name of that floor we were on,
51
00:03:52,920 –> 00:03:56,120
the pool garden,
that the city center
52
00:03:56,200 –> 00:03:58,720
has such few gardens,
53
00:03:58,800 –> 00:04:04,480
and usage of building roofs
with public access.
54
00:04:05,080 –> 00:04:12,400
And in this part of the city,
SESC becomes a viewpoint with free access,
55
00:04:12,480 –> 00:04:21,880
and it’s a widely used facility
by those coming to the city center.
56
00:04:21,960 –> 00:04:25,040
It’s clear that architecture
can also create other resources
57
00:04:25,320 –> 00:04:31,440
that establish that connection,
that sense or spatial continuity.
58
00:04:31,840 –> 00:04:37,200
In this case, on that void
where the pool water falls down,
59
00:04:37,560 –> 00:04:39,560
you can hear the noise
from bathers as well,
60
00:04:39,640 –> 00:04:42,640
it’s super important
to create that relationship.
61
00:04:48,080 –> 00:04:52,440
I think it’s worth mentioning
the organization of the construction.
62
00:04:53,520 –> 00:04:55,160
As everyone might already know,
63
00:04:55,240 –> 00:04:58,560
SESC 24 de Maio took advantage
of the old Mesbla building,
64
00:04:58,840 –> 00:05:00,400
a building of…
65
00:05:00,480 –> 00:05:05,320
Mesbla was a department store
and used the ground floor, two mezzanines,
66
00:05:05,880 –> 00:05:10,280
a dome and above that,
there were business offices
67
00:05:10,560 –> 00:05:12,240
and a U shaped of structure.
68
00:05:12,320 –> 00:05:15,320
Originally, it was L shaped
and ten years later,
69
00:05:15,400 –> 00:05:17,360
a third part was built.
70
00:05:17,440 –> 00:05:20,280
This must have been in the 40s,
50s of the 20th century.
71
00:05:20,600 –> 00:05:21,960
Full of columns.
72
00:05:22,480 –> 00:05:26,760
The first time we came here
with Paulo Mendes
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00:05:27,080 –> 00:05:30,160
he saw a tiny little building,
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00:05:30,560 –> 00:05:35,280
7 by 25 meters, a small parcel,
a building designed to be a restaurant,
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00:05:35,640 –> 00:05:40,680
very difficult to be reused
because it was small and disproportionate
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00:05:40,760 –> 00:05:44,400
in relation to the rest and Paulo said,
« I don’t think this will work out.
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The best thing SESC can do is to buy it
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and we incorporate it
to the other building. »
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We can say that it was possible
to do what SESC intended
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00:05:54,240 –> 00:05:58,640
because of the strategy of buying the land
on the side as an attachment,
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00:05:58,720 –> 00:06:04,160
because in this small area
separated by three meters,
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00:06:04,240 –> 00:06:07,240
connection bridges
were built on each floor.
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00:06:07,320 –> 00:06:09,240
In that small attachment,
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00:06:09,320 –> 00:06:11,680
which is not that small, after all,
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00:06:12,600 –> 00:06:19,000
each floor has 150 square meters,
is where all the sanitary facilities,
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00:06:19,080 –> 00:06:23,920
water tanks, refrigeration machines,
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00:06:24,000 –> 00:06:29,360
air conditioning, kitchen supply,
freezers, etc., are located.
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00:06:29,640 –> 00:06:35,360
The service elevators
have exits to the side street,
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00:06:35,840 –> 00:06:39,800
which relieves
the other building completely
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00:06:40,440 –> 00:06:44,760
from these ancillary service burdens.
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00:06:45,200 –> 00:06:49,280
It’s very beautiful
because it’s like a very nearby neighbor
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out of the regularity
of the original terrain.
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00:07:01,760 –> 00:07:08,120
On this original site, the third wing
had a series of small stairs
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00:07:08,200 –> 00:07:11,960
and elevators here where we are now,
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where we tried to build a new setup
to facilitate the flow of people
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00:07:18,640 –> 00:07:20,840
and leave as many empty spaces
as possible.
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00:07:27,880 –> 00:07:31,840
The most outstanding images
of this building are these voids,
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both for those who look up
and for those who look down.
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00:07:34,800 –> 00:07:38,880
When people going to the theater look up,
they can see the sky.
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We made a continuous ramp to give the idea
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of a developing city,
whoever doesn’t want to use the elevator
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can slowly walk all the way up.
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The ramps we see on the background,
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are perhaps the most important
architectural element of the project,
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because the ramps, along with that facade
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00:08:09,000 –> 00:08:10,800
with a very strong design,
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00:08:11,280 –> 00:08:14,480
is the most important facade
because it’s the most common image
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SESC users see.
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It’s important and common
because it can be seen on every floor.
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00:08:28,360 –> 00:08:32,440
Well, it would be possible to leave
all this facade partially enclosed,
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that is to say, with a roof but no walls,
but we’ve got rain, wind and so on.
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So we’ve decided to glaze it.
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At the same time it has to breathe,
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it’s easy to leave a small gap
resistant to wind between the glasses.
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00:08:50,080 –> 00:08:56,240
Then you bring in engineers
to help you achieve this result.
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00:08:56,720 –> 00:09:00,440
What if it were possible for this glass
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00:09:00,760 –> 00:09:04,080
not to simply mimic a building,
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the facade of a building? We thought then
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about a lattice grid structure,
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and with that, we got this result
which has its grace, right?
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It’s a transparent facade that breathes
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in the sense of natural ventilation,
things like that.
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Preserving this structure
was an important test
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00:09:32,800 –> 00:09:35,320
to understand we didn’t need
to rebuild everything here,
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we can recycle,
take advantage of what was already here.
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And by taking advantage of this structure,
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there was a lot less garbage,
we didn’t generate a lot of garbage.
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We took full advantage of the preexisting
structure and foundation.
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Everything that’s new is either steel
or exposed aggregate concrete
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and what preexisted is painted white.
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We will also see
that in this original U shaped structure
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four columns were built into the core
to structure the new part,
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roughly speaking, which ended up
housing the most important spaces,
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spaces that depend on large voids.
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00:10:34,240 –> 00:10:39,200
We see all those white columns
in the preexisting wing here,
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this is the newer part with fewer columns,
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the others parts have even more.
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And we see how beautiful it is,
it’s like a movie, it’s a festival.
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00:10:47,080 –> 00:10:48,760
That’s a gym class over there.
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But what I wanted to highlight
is that we have a big hall
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that was built into the core
of the old building
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00:10:54,040 –> 00:10:56,800
with four concrete columns,
and one of them is here.
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This is new, this was here before.
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And really high ceilings,
so that central void allowed us to have
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00:11:03,880 –> 00:11:08,080
not only wide spaces horizontally,
but wide spaces vertically
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00:11:08,440 –> 00:11:10,160
which is what a public building needs.
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00:11:20,000 –> 00:11:22,560
Here is the dentistry waiting area,
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00:11:22,640 –> 00:11:26,560
but there is something here
that I think is super cool to highlight
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00:11:27,160 –> 00:11:32,320
which is the fact that,
with the variety of uses and solutions,
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there are some common elements.
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00:11:35,400 –> 00:11:37,280
I already mentioned the ramps, the facade.
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The other element I believe
is very important to connect everything
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00:11:41,120 –> 00:11:43,960
is the furniture,
the furniture that’s everywhere.
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We started the project in 2001,
finished in 2009, it stopped, continued,
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and the construction work ended in 2017.
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00:12:05,840 –> 00:12:09,480
The world has changed a lot
during those 15 or more years.
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There’s a library here.
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00:12:11,440 –> 00:12:15,440
When the project started,
it was very common, in Brazil at least,
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for libraries to have an area
where they offered free internet.
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Obviously, when the building was unveiled,
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this was no longer necessary,
we have internet in our pockets now.
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A new program which has been creating
beautiful images was introduced
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called art and technology
in place of the free internet room.
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00:12:36,000 –> 00:12:39,800
Obviously, this building has to be,
before anything else,
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a beautiful container or a continent
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00:12:43,120 –> 00:12:45,600
for content that will vary over time.
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The use of a building
will increasingly change.
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So basically,
the role of architecture today,
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which I think was properly done here,
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is to create an infrastructure,
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the building becomes like a hardware
for various emerging software.
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00:13:11,560 –> 00:13:12,920
Here in the city center,
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Gleuson has already talked about
the beauty of having a viewpoint
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with free public access up there,
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00:13:20,040 –> 00:13:23,800
and it also seemed to us that,
as an enclosed building,
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in an area over constructed,
it would be nice to leave an open floor
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without windows, as if it were
a kind of garden inside the building.
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It’s a garden in the metaphorical sense,
it has no vegetation,
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00:13:35,040 –> 00:13:39,920
but it is a completely open floor
and it’s where people come
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sometimes to rest,
it’s almost like a city marquee,
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00:13:43,840 –> 00:13:47,800
a very urban floor,
a city like floor up here,
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where people can feel that breeze,
that fresh air, it’s hot in Brazil.
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It’s where people come to rest,
especially after lunch.
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We placed these workable furniture here
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which are those modules
that serve as benches, beds,
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stage, grandstand,
and every time I come here,
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they are arranged in a different way.
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I’ve seen people sleeping
on this furniture.
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00:14:20,040 –> 00:14:23,120
From this floor
we can see the three wings fairly well.
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It has an inverted beam,
that wall is structural,
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00:14:26,320 –> 00:14:31,360
we can’t knock it down, separating the L
from the third part of the U.
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00:14:32,000 –> 00:14:36,440
And then we took advantage of this beam
on both sides to attach some tables
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that became the most fought over space,
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where there are outlets,
where people can work.
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This is a region
that has several shopping arcades
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which are these vertical buildings
with stores and other facilities
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as well as terraces,
outdoor living spaces.
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00:15:05,680 –> 00:15:11,640
The President Arcade is right in front
and it’s known as the reggae arcade.
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This floor is exactly on the same level
as one of the arcade floors,
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so there is an outdoor living space
on this side
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and an outdoor living space
on the other side as well.
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We’ve made the clear decision
to expose all the facilities.
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The preexisting building didn’t allow
for a very predictable adjustment,
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it was already established,
so to avoid a conflict between facilities
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that shouldn’t be visible, we decided
that everything would be visible,
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which is very good for maintenance.
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RESTAURANT AREA
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What we are seeing here
is the queue to the restaurant,
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it’s a super efficient restaurant
that serves many meals.
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It’s a quite large restaurant,
it isn’t small.
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It’s proportional
to the importance of the institution
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00:16:17,200 –> 00:16:20,200
but as the prices are very good,
there is a certain subsidy
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00:16:20,280 –> 00:16:23,240
and as the food seems to be pleasing,
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there is a reasonable,
respectable queue every day.
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00:16:38,600 –> 00:16:43,880
Here is the administration waiting area
which comprises an entire ward
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00:16:44,160 –> 00:16:47,040
on the facade of 24 de Maio street.
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00:16:47,640 –> 00:16:50,280
It’s really nice,
everyone working by the window
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00:16:50,880 –> 00:16:54,080
and it’s a void, that is,
there’s the entrance void.
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What we are seeing there
is the work of Carmela Gross
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partly covered by the guardrail
and the water tank,
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00:17:00,480 –> 00:17:03,960
there are two water tanks
located right in the middle of the space.
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It’s curious because
there wasn’t a better place to put it,
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so it stayed right there.
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Paulo’s first decisions were to have
a rooftop pool and an underground theater.
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Those four columns carved down there
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at an adequate depth allowed us
to excavate below street level
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to build the theater,
which actually looks quite good
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00:17:38,200 –> 00:17:40,800
with its exit on the ground floor
because it creates autonomy.
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00:17:40,880 –> 00:17:43,600
The theater can operate
up to midnight, 1 AM.
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00:17:44,040 –> 00:17:46,000
A theater and a coffee shop was built.
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I would like a coffee.
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I would like… it could be coffee.
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00:18:02,920 –> 00:18:04,520
It has been a while
since I came on a Saturday,
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Saturdays are busier.
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00:18:08,240 –> 00:18:13,960
I found a very interesting term
used by the Biennale of Architecture
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about using what the building offers
which is « urban machine. »
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I think that’s it,
the building is this big machine,
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a compartment that’s always changing.
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Although it’s a facility,
a building, an institution,
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it’s only a medium,
a shelter for the most varied uses
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and that usage changes throughout the day,
throughout the days of the week
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and throughout the year as well.
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What’s really nice to highlight
is that this area is full of arcades,
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urban passages, covered streets,
passages inside buildings,
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00:19:05,400 –> 00:19:07,000
and SESC is one of those.
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00:19:07,600 –> 00:19:10,760
You can move from side to side
without any control,
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00:19:10,840 –> 00:19:12,720
there is no door, there is no security.
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The building becomes very inviting
to the neighboring population.
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00:19:18,040 –> 00:19:21,280
The center of São Paulo
is a very democratic place,
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00:19:21,960 –> 00:19:27,360
it has reasonable urban quality,
it’s where the real city comes to light,
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00:19:27,720 –> 00:19:30,000
the poorest people, the richest people,
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00:19:30,080 –> 00:19:33,800
it’s a plural place and it’s very common
for the poorest people
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to not feel entitled to enter places,
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even public places, public institutions,
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when the relationship between buildings
and streets is less genuine, less open.
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At SESC, people come in,
we saw the people upstairs,
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many people who are simply resting
because they have nowhere to go
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and who take advantage
of a building that’s so open
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and so inviting
that they end up entering the building.
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I think this is one of the nicest things
about SESC.
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