Paulo Mendes Da Rocha

pmr@sti.com.br

Technical sheet of this architecture video clip
Journalist : Emma C. Dessouroux
Cameraman : Mister Emma

Editing : Cristina Dias
Direction : Emma C. Dessouroux
Production : Les Délires Productions

Translation : Strakermedia
Rereading : Serge Ryckoort / Emelire
Subtitles : Strakermedia

Portuguese Subtitles

1
00:00:13,360 –> 00:00:19,320
Eu presumo ser um arquiteto
formado aqui em São Paulo

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na universidade Mackenzie

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e tendo nascido no estado
do Espírito Santo,

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que é um estado ao norte
do Rio de Janeiro,

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entre Rio de Janeiro e Bahia.

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A família da minha mãe é de lá.

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Imigrantes italianos
que já desembarcaram lá.

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Já chegaram aqui casados,
com dois filhos.

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Minha mãe foi o primeiro filho
nascido no Brasil.

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Meu pai é de uma família baiana…

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porém que foram para o Rio de Janeiro.

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Meu pai estudou engenharia
no Rio de Janeiro.

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Formado, foi construir
uma ponte no Espírito Santo

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00:00:56,800 –> 00:00:59,400
e casou com a filha
de um empreiteiro italiano

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00:00:59,480 –> 00:01:01,600
que encontrou lá.
Eis a minha origem.

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00:01:01,680 –> 00:01:05,240
Com isso, o meu nome
é todo da família do meu pai.

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Que é Mendes da Rocha.

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Origem portuguesa,
sem dúvida nenhuma.

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Eu não fui registrado com o nome
da família da minha mãe, que é…

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Terencio Serafini.

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00:01:17,720 –> 00:01:22,800
Mas eu vim com meu pai e minha mãe
pra São Paulo,

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00:01:22,880 –> 00:01:27,280
quando tinha cinco, seis anos de idade,
e nunca mais saímos daqui.

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Minha mãe era professora de formação.

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E trabalhou com concurso,
no governo, etc.

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na escola pública, como professora.

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Portanto me educou
com esses horizontes, sendo que,

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meu pai era engenheiro.

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Você pode imaginar
por que eu acabei arquiteto, né?

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00:01:55,200 –> 00:01:58,400
O meu interesse na arquitetura surgiu,

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00:01:59,280 –> 00:02:02,560
se isso não for muito prosaico
de se dizer,

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00:02:02,640 –> 00:02:05,680
pela própria questão da arquitetura,
quando eu percebi

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que diante da engenharia
que eu tinha sido educado,

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vendo meu pai…

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Meu pai era professor
da escola politécnica,

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00:02:13,120 –> 00:02:14,520
da universidade de São Paulo,

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tornou-se um homem muito ilustre,
enquanto engenheiro,

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um pequeno parênteses,

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e professor de uma cadeira cujo título,

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hoje está desdobrada,
esta cadeira, mas é uma maravilha

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porque é « Navegação Interior:
portos, rios e canais ».

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Eu então me apaixonei sempre,
por essa questão toda

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e talvez, de um modo edipiano,
sempre tinha escrúpulo de…

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eu também ser um engenheiro,
não sabia…

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E percebi com tudo isso, entretanto,
a questão da transformação da natureza.

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Quando eu percebi que a arquitetura
justamente se dedicava a isso,

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a construir a cidade, digamos.

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00:02:57,000 –> 00:03:01,080
A realizar o habitat humano no planeta,
eu me encantei com a questão

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00:03:01,160 –> 00:03:02,840
e não tive muita dúvida.

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00:03:02,920 –> 00:03:05,120
É claro que eu tinha colegas,

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00:03:05,640 –> 00:03:07,800
alguns outros, que também…

51
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foram estudar arquitetura,
trocavam-se ideias…

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foi se formando um clima.

53
00:03:17,000 –> 00:03:22,480
Um cenário muito propício
quanto à idealização

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00:03:22,560 –> 00:03:26,640
da ideia de arquitetura como forma
de conhecimento, compreende?

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00:03:26,720 –> 00:03:29,200
Eu fiz um curso, seja o que for,

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00:03:29,280 –> 00:03:32,600
mais dentro da minha cabeça
do que na sala de aula.

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00:03:42,400 –> 00:03:48,360
Arquitetura é a um tempo só.
Não partes somadas.

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00:03:48,440 –> 00:03:52,320
Mas a um tempo só,
arte, ciência e técnica.

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Eu vejo…

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Não só eu.

61
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Eu concordo com quem vê assim.

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Arquitetura como uma forma peculiar
de conhecimento.

63
00:04:02,200 –> 00:04:04,360
Peculiar ao gênero humano.

64
00:04:04,440 –> 00:04:05,920
Nós nascemos arquitetos.

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00:04:06,960 –> 00:04:10,360
Quando o homem escolheu
habitar uma gruta

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ou ficar em torno daquela fogueira,
três ou quatro, que fosse,

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00:04:13,760 –> 00:04:17,440
tava fazendo uma casa,
uma cidade, etc.

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00:04:23,600 –> 00:04:25,600
Se você sabe o que quer dizer,

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no caso da arquitetura,
o que você quer construir,

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00:04:29,240 –> 00:04:32,000
a técnica impõe o material, etc.

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00:04:32,080 –> 00:04:34,520
A construção, é ela que prefere,
não é você.

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Conforme a ideia,
é como um discurso.

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00:04:38,760 –> 00:04:41,240
As palavras se impõem
para você dizer aquilo.

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Você não pode hoje,
fazer uma ponte de pedra,

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sem aglutinante nenhum,
sem cimento, mas…

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poder, pode. Você vai repetir
uma ponte romana de arco, etc.

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00:04:53,760 –> 00:04:55,440
Portanto…

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é uma questão de realização
de necessidades e desejos humanos.

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00:05:03,320 –> 00:05:05,040
Sempre, portanto, urgente.

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00:05:05,520 –> 00:05:08,320
O fato de fazer isso ou aquilo. Construir.

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00:05:08,920 –> 00:05:10,960
Porque o arquiteto vê,

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00:05:11,040 –> 00:05:14,800
não só o arquiteto, mas com muita clareza,
o arquiteto vê

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00:05:15,480 –> 00:05:21,760
que nós estamos, enquanto ser humano,
enquanto vivente,

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condenados a transformar
ideia em coisa.

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A pura ideia
ninguém sabe o que é, nunca.

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Assim como uma poesia,
você tem que escrever

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com as 25 letras do alfabeto,

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seja lá italiano, inglês…

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em português, na língua que for.
25 letras.

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Os recursos são muito poucos.
A imaginação é infinita.

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A palavra « criação » não me agrada.
Eu não crio nada.

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O fruto do trabalho não é uma criação.

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É uma conclusão de uma reflexão
objetivamente dirigida

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para essa dualidade:
necessidades e desejos.

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A necessidade de ter um sentido
pragmático prático absoluto.

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Sentar pra comer é mais confortável

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então a cadeira é necessária.

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Então para as necessidades é fácil
descrever as virtudes da cadeira.

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Inclinação do encosto, altura
em relação ao plano da mesa.

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Se é pra escrever ou pra comer.

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Já em relação ao desejo,

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é indizível, digamos,
o horizonte da questão.

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Esse desejo tem a ver com o sentido,

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00:06:47,640 –> 00:06:49,320
que também é indizível,

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mas a configuração
daquilo que chamamos beleza.

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Ou seja, o objeto dessa questão,

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o produzir a beleza, é seduzir o outro.

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Pra falar a verdade,
talvez seja ignorância minha,

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não sei bem
o que quer dizer brutalismo.

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Manter…

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00:07:16,680 –> 00:07:21,920
as edificações, os objetos
com a aparência exata

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do material com que foi feito,
por exemplo,

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deixar o concreto armado
sem revestimento, etc.

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Se for isso,
um dos aspectos do brutalismo.

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Mas chamar de brutalismo
não fica muito bem, na minha opinião.

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Porque afinal de contas…

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qualquer catedral…

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medieval, gótica,
qualquer catedral histórica…

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não se revestiam aquelas pedras todas.

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É sempre brutalismo.

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Nada mais brutalista
do que uma pirâmide do Cairo.

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Portanto, não vejo muita novidade nisso.

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Em você admirar.

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Fazer com que aquele atributo,
desejo na coisa, surja…

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da construção em si mesma.
Bem clara e visível.

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Acho muito constante
na história do homem.

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Não é dessa ou daquela época.

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Ou seja,
pra encurtar a conversa, como se diz.

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Não gosto muito da expressão
nem da definição « brutalismo ».

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Muito menos aplicada na arquitetura
que se faz aqui no Brasil.

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Tudo o que é essencial, na América
era de se esperar que fosse assim.

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O resto é colonialismo puro.

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Representar aquilo que eles são.
Não o que somos nós.

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Ou o que queremos ser.

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Não somos nada, justamente.

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É um discurso que se inicia

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numa consciência que se forma,
digamos, de um modo novo

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diante da exuberância da natureza
que aqui estava,

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principalmente com o conhecimento
dos nativos daqui

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00:09:01,240 –> 00:09:04,240
que tinham técnicas e modos

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00:09:04,680 –> 00:09:08,360
de excelência,
do ponto de vista urbanístico

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que foram, justamente,
massacrados, desprezados

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pela estupidez da política colonial.

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Eu não sou bon vivant,
na minha opinião,

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00:09:19,880 –> 00:09:22,560
de um modo destacável.

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00:09:23,040 –> 00:09:24,440
Eu vivo bem com meus amigos,

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00:09:24,520 –> 00:09:28,240
tanto que todos eles, então,
são bon vivants também, não é?

148
00:09:28,320 –> 00:09:31,400
Eu gosto muito de sair do escritório,
sempre fiz isso.

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Cinco e meia, seis da tarde.

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00:09:35,360 –> 00:09:37,520
Muitas vezes eu passei três…

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Duas noites, já passei, seguidas,
sem dormir, dentro do escritório,

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pra entregar um projeto, etc.

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00:09:44,520 –> 00:09:46,520
Mas isso é uma exceção.

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Normalmente eu fazia assim:
17h30 ia pra um certo bar.

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São Paulo tem vários,
mas o dos meus amigos era esse.

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E lá estavam todos os amigos,
você nem tinha uma mesa fixa.

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Ia pro balcão, depois sentava
um pouco numa mesa, ou em outra,

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00:10:05,760 –> 00:10:07,000
era uma diversão.

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00:10:07,080 –> 00:10:09,080
E saía dali tarde da noite.

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00:10:10,000 –> 00:10:11,680
Mas você vê, por outro lado,

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eu peço desculpas
por eu mesmo dizer isso,

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mas me dá a impressão que,
pelo interesse dos outros,

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minha obra é bem feita.

164
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Portanto…

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eu me dedico muito ao meu trabalho.

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Agora… acabou isso, o resto é farra.

French Subtitles

1
00:00:13,360 –> 00:00:19,320
Je prétends être un architecte
formé ici, à São Paulo,

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00:00:20,400 –> 00:00:22,360
à l’université Mackenzie,

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00:00:22,440 –> 00:00:25,160
et je suis né dans l’État d’Espírito Santo

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qui est au nord de Rio de Janeiro,

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entre Rio de Janeiro et Bahia.

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00:00:30,400 –> 00:00:32,440
La famille de ma mère est de là-bas.

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00:00:32,520 –> 00:00:36,240
Des immigrés italiens
qui sont arrivés ici.

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00:00:36,320 –> 00:00:39,400
Ils sont arrivés ici, mariés avec deux enfants.

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00:00:39,480 –> 00:00:42,920
Ma mère est la première fille
née au Brésil.

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00:00:43,720 –> 00:00:46,840
La famille de mon père est de Bahia.

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00:00:48,200 –> 00:00:52,400
Mais ils sont allés à Rio de Janeiro.
Mon père y a étudié l’ingénierie.

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00:00:52,480 –> 00:00:56,560
Après ses études, il est allé
à Espírito Santo construire un pont

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00:00:56,640 –> 00:00:59,400
et a épousé la fille
d’un entrepreneur italien

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00:00:59,480 –> 00:01:01,600
rencontrée là-bas. C’est mon origine.

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00:01:01,680 –> 00:01:05,240
Mon nom de famille renvoie
à la famille de mon père,

16
00:01:05,320 –> 00:01:07,120
les Mendes da Rocha.

17
00:01:07,880 –> 00:01:10,200
Sans doute d’origine portugaise.

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00:01:10,960 –> 00:01:12,520
Je ne suis pas enregistré

19
00:01:12,600 –> 00:01:15,080
avec le nom de la famille
de ma mère, qui est…

20
00:01:16,160 –> 00:01:17,640
Terencio Serafini.

21
00:01:17,720 –> 00:01:22,800
Mais je suis venu avec mon père
et ma mère à São Paulo,

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00:01:22,880 –> 00:01:27,280
quand j’avais cinq ou six ans,
et je n’en suis jamais reparti.

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00:01:27,360 –> 00:01:30,400
Ma mère était enseignante,

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elle a réussi un examen du gouvernement

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et a enseigné dans une école publique.

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Donc elle m’a éduqué,
et avec ces horizons,

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avec un père ingénieur,

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00:01:42,080 –> 00:01:46,640
vous imaginez bien
pourquoi je suis devenu architecte.

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00:01:55,200 –> 00:01:58,400
Mon intérêt pour l’architecture a émergé,

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00:01:59,400 –> 00:02:02,560
s’il n’est pas trop prosaïque de le dire,

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00:02:02,640 –> 00:02:06,280
concernant l’architecture en elle-même,
quand j’ai compris,

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00:02:06,360 –> 00:02:09,200
ayant grandi dans le monde
de l’ingénierie,

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00:02:09,280 –> 00:02:10,480
en voyant mon père…

34
00:02:10,560 –> 00:02:13,040
Mon père était professeur
à l’école polytechnique

35
00:02:13,120 –> 00:02:14,520
de l’université de São Paulo.

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00:02:14,600 –> 00:02:18,120
En tant qu’ingénieur,
il est devenu très illustre,

37
00:02:18,200 –> 00:02:19,600
petite parenthèse,

38
00:02:19,680 –> 00:02:22,480
et il enseignait un sujet appelé…

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00:02:22,560 –> 00:02:25,240
de nos jours, ce sujet
est enseigné différemment,

40
00:02:25,320 –> 00:02:28,480
mais il est merveilleux,
car c’est la navigation intérieure :

41
00:02:28,560 –> 00:02:30,320
ports, rivières et canaux.

42
00:02:31,200 –> 00:02:34,840
Et je suis tombé amoureux de tout ça

43
00:02:35,680 –> 00:02:39,600
et peut-être que d’une manière œdipienne,
je pensais…

44
00:02:40,440 –> 00:02:43,680
pouvoir aussi être ingénieur,
je ne savais pas…

45
00:02:44,720 –> 00:02:49,760
Mais j’ai compris, avec ça, la question
de la transformation de la nature.

46
00:02:49,840 –> 00:02:53,960
Quand j’ai compris que l’architecture
était consacrée à ça,

47
00:02:54,680 –> 00:02:56,920
à construire la ville,

48
00:02:57,000 –> 00:02:59,520
réaliser l’habitat humain sur la planète,

49
00:02:59,600 –> 00:03:02,840
ça m’a enchanté
et je n’ai pas eu de doutes.

50
00:03:02,920 –> 00:03:05,120
Bien sûr, j’avais des collègues,

51
00:03:05,640 –> 00:03:07,800
d’autres qui eux aussi…

52
00:03:08,920 –> 00:03:12,840
étudiaient l’architecture,
nous échangions donc des idées.

53
00:03:13,280 –> 00:03:16,920
Il s’est alors formé un environnement.

54
00:03:17,000 –> 00:03:22,480
Un paysage très favorable à l’idéalisation

55
00:03:22,560 –> 00:03:26,640
de l’idée d’architecture
comme moyen de connaissance, vous voyez ?

56
00:03:26,720 –> 00:03:29,200
En fait, j’ai suivi une formation

57
00:03:29,280 –> 00:03:32,600
plus dans ma tête
que dans la salle de classe.

58
00:03:42,400 –> 00:03:44,960
L’architecture, c’est en même temps.

59
00:03:45,040 –> 00:03:48,360
Ce n’est pas des parties ajoutées,

60
00:03:48,440 –> 00:03:52,320
mais en même temps
l’art, la science et la technique.

61
00:03:52,400 –> 00:03:53,880
Je vois…

62
00:03:54,560 –> 00:03:55,760
pas seulement moi,

63
00:03:55,840 –> 00:03:58,800
je suis d’accord avec ceux
qui voient les choses ainsi,

64
00:03:58,880 –> 00:04:02,120
l’architecture comme un moyen
de connaissance particulier,

65
00:04:02,200 –> 00:04:04,360
particulier à l’humanité.

66
00:04:04,440 –> 00:04:06,240
Nous naissons architectes.

67
00:04:06,960 –> 00:04:10,360
Quand les hommes ont choisi
de vivre dans une caverne

68
00:04:10,440 –> 00:04:13,680
ou d’être autour du feu,
à trois ou à quatre, peu importe,

69
00:04:13,760 –> 00:04:17,440
ils fabriquaient une maison,
une ville, etc.

70
00:04:23,600 –> 00:04:25,440
Si vous savez ce que vous voulez dire,

71
00:04:25,520 –> 00:04:28,840
dans le cas de l’architecture,
ce que vous voulez construire,

72
00:04:29,240 –> 00:04:32,000
la technique impose le matériau, etc.

73
00:04:32,080 –> 00:04:34,520
C’est la construction
qui impose, pas vous.

74
00:04:34,600 –> 00:04:37,480
En fonction de l’idée,
c’est comme un discours.

75
00:04:38,760 –> 00:04:41,240
Les mots sont imposés
pour que vous disiez cela.

76
00:04:41,320 –> 00:04:44,080
Aujourd’hui, on ne peut plus
faire un pont de pierre

77
00:04:44,160 –> 00:04:48,000
sans matériau d’assemblage, sans ciment.

78
00:04:48,080 –> 00:04:53,080
En fait, on peut. On reproduira
un pont en arche romain, etc.

79
00:04:53,760 –> 00:04:55,440
Alors…

80
00:04:56,640 –> 00:05:02,720
c’est une question de réalisation
de nécessités et de désirs humains.

81
00:05:03,320 –> 00:05:05,040
Toujours, dans l’urgence,

82
00:05:05,520 –> 00:05:08,320
le fait de faire ceci ou cela.
De construire.

83
00:05:08,920 –> 00:05:10,960
Car l’architecte voit,

84
00:05:11,040 –> 00:05:14,800
pas seulement l’architecte,
mais l’architecte voit clairement

85
00:05:15,480 –> 00:05:21,760
que nous sommes, en tant qu’êtres humains,
pendant que nous vivons,

86
00:05:21,840 –> 00:05:25,480
condamnés à transformer
les idées en choses.

87
00:05:25,560 –> 00:05:28,080
Personne ne sait jamais
ce qu’est la vraie idée.

88
00:05:28,560 –> 00:05:31,600
Comme avec une poésie, où il faut écrire

89
00:05:31,680 –> 00:05:34,160
avec les 25 lettres de l’alphabet,

90
00:05:34,240 –> 00:05:37,440
que ce soit en italien, en anglais…

91
00:05:38,080 –> 00:05:40,800
en portugais, quelle que soit la langue.
Vingt-cinq lettres.

92
00:05:41,200 –> 00:05:45,280
Il y a très peu de ressources.
L’imagination est infinie.

93
00:05:51,720 –> 00:05:55,600
Le mot « création » ne me convient pas.
Je ne crée rien.

94
00:05:56,040 –> 00:05:58,320
Le résultat du travail
n’est pas une création.

95
00:05:59,080 –> 00:06:04,600
C’est une conclusion
d’une réflexion dirigée objectivement

96
00:06:05,000 –> 00:06:08,760
en fonction de cette dualité :
nécessités et désirs.

97
00:06:09,320 –> 00:06:14,040
La nécessité d’avoir
un sens pratique pragmatique absolu.

98
00:06:14,840 –> 00:06:17,800
Il est plus confortable
de s’asseoir pour manger.

99
00:06:17,880 –> 00:06:20,600
La chaise est donc une nécessité.

100
00:06:22,000 –> 00:06:26,640
Puis, en fonction de cela, il est facile
de décrire les qualités de la chaise.

101
00:06:26,720 –> 00:06:31,480
Inclinaison, hauteur
par rapport au plan de la table.

102
00:06:31,560 –> 00:06:33,360
Si elle sert à écrire ou à manger.

103
00:06:34,120 –> 00:06:37,760
Néanmoins, concernant le désir,

104
00:06:37,840 –> 00:06:43,240
il est indicible,
l’horizon de la question,

105
00:06:43,920 –> 00:06:47,560
ce désir est en rapport avec le sens,

106
00:06:47,640 –> 00:06:49,320
qui est aussi indicible.

107
00:06:49,400 –> 00:06:52,520
Mais la configuration
de ce que nous appelons « beauté »,

108
00:06:52,600 –> 00:06:56,200
autrement dit, l’objet de cette question,

109
00:06:56,280 –> 00:06:59,760
produire de la beauté,
est de séduire autrui.

110
00:07:09,240 –> 00:07:11,760
À vrai dire,
c’est peut-être mon ignorance,

111
00:07:11,840 –> 00:07:14,080
je ne sais pas vraiment
ce que signifie « brutalisme ».

112
00:07:14,160 –> 00:07:15,160
Conserver…

113
00:07:16,680 –> 00:07:21,920
les constructions, les objets
avec l’apparence exacte

114
00:07:22,000 –> 00:07:24,720
du matériau dont ils sont faits,
par exemple,

115
00:07:24,800 –> 00:07:28,440
laisser le béton sans revêtement, etc.,

116
00:07:28,520 –> 00:07:31,960
c’est peut-être l’un des aspects
du brutalisme.

117
00:07:32,040 –> 00:07:35,720
Mais pour moi, appeler ça brutalisme,
ce n’est pas très bien à mon avis.

118
00:07:36,200 –> 00:07:38,000
Car après tout…

119
00:07:39,160 –> 00:07:40,880
toute cathédrale…

120
00:07:43,240 –> 00:07:46,560
les médiévales ou les gothiques,
toute cathédrale historique…

121
00:07:47,920 –> 00:07:50,760
les pierres n’avaient pas de revêtement.

122
00:07:51,160 –> 00:07:52,560
C’est toujours du brutalisme.

123
00:07:52,640 –> 00:07:55,440
Rien n’est plus brutaliste
qu’une pyramide du Caire.

124
00:07:55,520 –> 00:07:58,280
Je n’y vois donc rien de neuf.

125
00:07:58,360 –> 00:08:01,000
Dans le fait de l’admirer.

126
00:08:01,880 –> 00:08:07,880
En faire un attribut,
un soi-disant désir, émergeant…

127
00:08:08,960 –> 00:08:13,080
du désir de la construction lui-même,
tout à fait clair et visible.

128
00:08:13,160 –> 00:08:17,160
Je trouve cela très constant
dans l’histoire des hommes.

129
00:08:17,240 –> 00:08:19,320
Ce n’est pas d’une époque particulière.

130
00:08:19,400 –> 00:08:23,760
Autrement dit,
pour couper court, comme on dit,

131
00:08:23,840 –> 00:08:27,520
je n’aime pas vraiment l’expression
ni même la définition du brutalisme.

132
00:08:27,600 –> 00:08:31,120
Encore moins appliquées à l’architecture
faite ici, au Brésil.

133
00:08:32,280 –> 00:08:36,560
Tout ce qui est essentiel en Amérique
était censé être comme ça.

134
00:08:36,640 –> 00:08:38,520
Le reste est du pur colonialisme.

135
00:08:38,600 –> 00:08:42,600
Représenter ce qu’ils sont.
Pas ce que nous sommes.

136
00:08:43,800 –> 00:08:45,400
Ou ce que nous voulons être.

137
00:08:45,480 –> 00:08:47,160
En fait, nous ne sommes rien.

138
00:08:47,240 –> 00:08:49,360
C’est un discours qui commence

139
00:08:49,440 –> 00:08:53,280
dans une conscience formée,
d’une nouvelle manière,

140
00:08:53,360 –> 00:08:57,640
avant l’exubérance
de la nature qui était ici,

141
00:08:57,720 –> 00:09:01,160
principalement avec les connaissances
des autochtones d’ici

142
00:09:01,240 –> 00:09:04,240
qui avaient des techniques
et des façons de faire

143
00:09:04,680 –> 00:09:08,360
d’excellence, du point de vue urbaniste,

144
00:09:08,440 –> 00:09:11,320
qui ont été, en fait, massacrés, méprisés

145
00:09:11,400 –> 00:09:13,960
par la stupidité
des politiques coloniales.

146
00:09:15,480 –> 00:09:22,440
Pour moi, je ne suis pas
remarquablement bon vivant.

147
00:09:23,040 –> 00:09:24,440
Je vis bien avec mes amis,

148
00:09:24,520 –> 00:09:28,240
donc, dans ce cas, ce sont tous
aussi de bons vivants, non ?

149
00:09:28,320 –> 00:09:31,400
J’aime vraiment quitter le bureau,
j’ai toujours fait ça…

150
00:09:32,560 –> 00:09:34,600
à 17h30, 18h.

151
00:09:35,360 –> 00:09:37,520
J’ai souvent passé trois…

152
00:09:37,600 –> 00:09:42,480
J’ai déjà passé deux nuits d’affilée
au bureau, sans dormir,

153
00:09:42,560 –> 00:09:46,280
pour remettre un projet, etc.
Mais c’est une exception.

154
00:09:46,600 –> 00:09:48,400
Normalement je faisais ainsi :

155
00:09:48,480 –> 00:09:52,160
à 17h30, j’allais à un certain bar.

156
00:09:52,240 –> 00:09:56,480
São Paulo en a beaucoup,
mais mes amis allaient à un certain bar.

157
00:09:57,200 –> 00:10:02,440
Ils y étaient tous,
on n’avait même pas une table fixe.

158
00:10:02,520 –> 00:10:05,680
J’allais au bar, puis je m’asseyais
à une table ou une autre.

159
00:10:05,760 –> 00:10:09,080
C’était très amusant.
Et je partais tard le soir.

160
00:10:10,000 –> 00:10:12,400
Mais comme vous voyez, d’un autre côté,

161
00:10:13,120 –> 00:10:15,680
je m’excuse de le dire moi-même,

162
00:10:15,760 –> 00:10:19,240
mais j’ai l’impression que,
pour l’intérêt des autres,

163
00:10:19,320 –> 00:10:21,080
mon travail est bien fait.

164
00:10:21,640 –> 00:10:23,040
Donc…

165
00:10:25,000 –> 00:10:27,280
je suis très dévoué à mon travail.

166
00:10:28,040 –> 00:10:32,880
Mais… quand le travail est fini,
il faut s’amuser.

English Subtitles

1
00:00:13,360 –> 00:00:19,320
I am an architect
who graduated here in Sao Paulo

2
00:00:20,400 –> 00:00:22,360
from Mackenzie University,

3
00:00:22,440 –> 00:00:25,160
and I was born
in the state of Espírito Santo,

4
00:00:25,760 –> 00:00:27,960
which is to the north of Rio de Janeiro,

5
00:00:28,040 –> 00:00:30,320
between Rio de Janeiro and Bahia.

6
00:00:30,400 –> 00:00:32,440
My mother’s family is from there.

7
00:00:32,520 –> 00:00:36,000
They were Italian immigrants
who landed there.

8
00:00:36,320 –> 00:00:39,400
They arrived here
married with two children.

9
00:00:39,480 –> 00:00:42,920
My mother was the first daughter
who was born in Brazil.

10
00:00:43,720 –> 00:00:46,840
My father’s family is from Bahia.

11
00:00:48,160 –> 00:00:49,760
However, they went to Rio de Janeiro.

12
00:00:49,840 –> 00:00:52,400
My father studied engineering
in Rio de Janeiro.

13
00:00:52,480 –> 00:00:56,560
After graduating, he went
to Espírito Santo to build a bridge

14
00:00:56,640 –> 00:00:59,400
and married the daughter
of an Italian contractor

15
00:00:59,480 –> 00:01:01,600
he met there. That’s my origin.

16
00:01:01,680 –> 00:01:05,240
And so my surname comes
from my father’s family,

17
00:01:05,320 –> 00:01:07,120
which is Mendes da Rocha.

18
00:01:07,880 –> 00:01:10,200
Portuguese origin, undoubtedly.

19
00:01:10,960 –> 00:01:15,080
I’m not on the records with the surname
of my mother’s family, which is…

20
00:01:16,160 –> 00:01:17,640
Terencio Serafini.

21
00:01:17,720 –> 00:01:22,800
But I came with my father
and my mother to São Paulo,

22
00:01:22,880 –> 00:01:27,280
when I was five, six years old,
and we never left here.

23
00:01:27,360 –> 00:01:30,400
My mother was a teacher

24
00:01:30,480 –> 00:01:34,040
and she passed a government test

25
00:01:34,120 –> 00:01:36,240
to work at a public school as a teacher.

26
00:01:36,320 –> 00:01:39,720
So she educated me
with an eye to the future,

27
00:01:40,200 –> 00:01:42,000
that my father, being an engineer,

28
00:01:42,080 –> 00:01:46,640
you can imagine the reason
why I became an architect, right?

29
00:01:55,200 –> 00:01:58,400
My interest in architecture arose,

30
00:01:59,400 –> 00:02:02,560
if it’s not too prosaic to say that,

31
00:02:02,640 –> 00:02:06,280
from the issue of architecture itself,
when I realized that

32
00:02:06,360 –> 00:02:09,200
faced with engineering,
which I had been educated in,

33
00:02:09,280 –> 00:02:10,480
seeing my father…

34
00:02:10,560 –> 00:02:13,040
My father was a teacher
at the polytechnic school

35
00:02:13,120 –> 00:02:14,520
of the University of São Paulo.

36
00:02:14,600 –> 00:02:18,120
He became a very illustrious man
as an engineer,

37
00:02:18,200 –> 00:02:19,600
a small parenthesis,

38
00:02:19,680 –> 00:02:22,480
and he taught a subject called…

39
00:02:22,560 –> 00:02:25,240
Nowadays this subject
is taught differently,

40
00:02:25,320 –> 00:02:26,480
but it’s wonderful,

41
00:02:26,560 –> 00:02:30,320
because it’s Internal Navigation:
Ports, Rivers and Channels.

42
00:02:31,200 –> 00:02:34,840
And I fell in love with all of this,

43
00:02:35,680 –> 00:02:39,600
and perhaps, in some Oedipean way,
I kind of thought

44
00:02:40,440 –> 00:02:43,600
that I could also be an engineer,
I didn’t know…

45
00:02:44,720 –> 00:02:49,760
But in all of that I saw
this issue of transforming nature.

46
00:02:49,840 –> 00:02:53,960
When I realized that architecture
was dedicated to just that,

47
00:02:54,680 –> 00:02:56,920
to build a city, let’s say,

48
00:02:57,000 –> 00:02:59,520
forming a human habitat on the planet,

49
00:02:59,600 –> 00:03:02,840
I loved it and didn’t have any doubts.

50
00:03:02,920 –> 00:03:05,120
Of course I had colleagues,

51
00:03:05,640 –> 00:03:07,800
some others who also…

52
00:03:08,920 –> 00:03:12,840
studied architecture,
so ideas were exchanged.

53
00:03:13,280 –> 00:03:16,920
A certain environment was created,

54
00:03:17,000 –> 00:03:22,480
a very favorable backdrop
in regards to the idealization

55
00:03:22,560 –> 00:03:26,640
of the idea of architecture
as a means of knowledge, you know?

56
00:03:26,720 –> 00:03:29,200
I took a course like, as it were,

57
00:03:29,280 –> 00:03:32,600
more inside my head
than in the classroom.

58
00:03:42,400 –> 00:03:44,960
Architecture exists in a moment.

59
00:03:45,040 –> 00:03:48,360
It’s not added parts.

60
00:03:48,440 –> 00:03:52,320
But at the same time,
it’s art, science and technique.

61
00:03:52,400 –> 00:03:53,880
I see…

62
00:03:54,560 –> 00:03:55,760
It’s not only me.

63
00:03:55,840 –> 00:03:58,800
I agree with those who see it like that.

64
00:03:58,880 –> 00:04:04,360
Architecture is a peculiar means
of knowledge, peculiar to mankind.

65
00:04:04,440 –> 00:04:06,240
We are born architects.

66
00:04:06,960 –> 00:04:10,360
When man chose to live in a cave,

67
00:04:10,440 –> 00:04:13,680
remaining around a fire,
three or four people, whatever,

68
00:04:13,760 –> 00:04:17,440
they were making a house, a city, etc.

69
00:04:23,600 –> 00:04:27,520
If you understand me,
in case of the architecture,

70
00:04:27,600 –> 00:04:32,000
the technique imposes the material
and such for what you want to build.

71
00:04:32,080 –> 00:04:34,520
The construction
is the one with preference, not you.

72
00:04:34,600 –> 00:04:37,480
Following this idea,
it is like a discourse.

73
00:04:38,760 –> 00:04:41,240
The words are imposed
in order for you to speak.

74
00:04:41,320 –> 00:04:44,080
Today you cannot make a stone bridge

75
00:04:44,160 –> 00:04:48,000
without agglutinate material,
without cement anymore…

76
00:04:48,080 –> 00:04:49,280
Actually, you can.

77
00:04:49,360 –> 00:04:53,080
You are going to recreate
a Roman arch bridge, etc.

78
00:04:53,760 –> 00:04:55,440
So…

79
00:04:56,640 –> 00:05:02,720
it is a question of fulfilling
human necessities and wishes.

80
00:05:03,320 –> 00:05:05,040
It’s always urgent,

81
00:05:05,520 –> 00:05:08,320
the matter of doing this or that,
of building.

82
00:05:08,920 –> 00:05:10,960
Because the architect sees,

83
00:05:11,040 –> 00:05:14,800
and not only the architect,
but the architect sees clearly

84
00:05:15,480 –> 00:05:20,520
that we, as human beings,

85
00:05:20,600 –> 00:05:25,480
are condemned to transform ideas
into things while living.

86
00:05:25,560 –> 00:05:28,080
Nobody ever knows
what the true idea is.

87
00:05:28,560 –> 00:05:31,600
And so it is with poetry,
you have to write

88
00:05:31,680 –> 00:05:34,160
with the 25 letters of the alphabet,

89
00:05:34,240 –> 00:05:38,840
no matter whether it is Italian,
English, Portuguese…

90
00:05:38,920 –> 00:05:40,800
the language doesn’t matter. 25 letters.

91
00:05:41,200 –> 00:05:45,280
There are very little resources.
The imagination is infinite.

92
00:05:51,720 –> 00:05:55,600
The word « creation » does not please me.
I don’t create anything.

93
00:05:56,040 –> 00:05:58,320
The result of the work is not a creation.

94
00:05:59,080 –> 00:06:04,600
It is a conclusion
of an objectively directed reflection

95
00:06:05,000 –> 00:06:08,760
for this dualism:
necessities and wishes.

96
00:06:09,320 –> 00:06:14,040
The necessity of having an absolute,
practical, pragmatic sense.

97
00:06:14,440 –> 00:06:17,800
Sitting to eat is more comfortable.

98
00:06:17,880 –> 00:06:20,600
So the chair is necessary.

99
00:06:22,000 –> 00:06:26,640
Then for the necessities, it is easy
to describe the virtues of the chair.

100
00:06:26,720 –> 00:06:31,480
The incline of the back,
the height in relation to the table level.

101
00:06:31,560 –> 00:06:33,360
If it’s for writing or eating.

102
00:06:34,120 –> 00:06:37,760
However, regarding the wish,

103
00:06:37,840 –> 00:06:43,240
the possibilities of this question
are untold.

104
00:06:43,920 –> 00:06:47,560
This wish has to do
with the sense,

105
00:06:47,640 –> 00:06:49,320
which is also inexpressible,

106
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of the configuration
of what we call beauty.

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In other words,
the object of this question,

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producing beauty,
is to seduce the others.

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To tell the truth,
perhaps it’s my ignorance,

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but I don’t really know
what « Brutalism » means.

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Maintaining…

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the construction, the objects
with the exact appearance

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of the material with which
it was made, for example,

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to leave the concrete
without an overlay and such,

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maybe that’s one of the aspects
of Brutalism.

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But calling it Brutalism
is not very nice, in my opinion.

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Because, after all, any cathedral…

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medieval or Gothic ones,
any historical cathedral…

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those stones were not coated.

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It is always Brutalism.

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Nothing is more brutalist
than a pyramid in Cairo.

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So, I don’t see big news in that,
in admiring that.

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Making that attribute,
that wish, arise…

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from the construction itself,
quite clear and visible.

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I think it’s a constant
in the history of men.

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It’s not from this or that time.

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In other words, to sum up
the conversation, as we say,

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I don’t really like the expression
or even the definition of Brutalism,

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even less when applied to the architecture
done here in Brazil.

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Everything that is essential
in America was expected to be like this.

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The rest is pure colonialism,

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representing what they are,
not what we are.

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Or what we want to be.

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We are nothing, actually.

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It is a discourse that begins

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in a conscience that is formed
in a new way,

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in the presence of the exuberance
of nature that was here,

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mainly with the knowledge of the natives

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00:09:01,240 –> 00:09:04,240
who had techniques and ways

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00:09:04,680 –> 00:09:08,360
of excellence,
from the town planning point of view,

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00:09:08,440 –> 00:09:11,320
and who were, in fact,
massacred and despised

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00:09:11,400 –> 00:09:13,960
by the stupidity of colonial politics.

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00:09:15,480 –> 00:09:22,400
I’m not a bon vivant,
in my opinion, in an noteworthy way.

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00:09:23,040 –> 00:09:24,440
I live well with my friends,

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00:09:24,520 –> 00:09:28,240
in such a way that all of them
are also bons vivants, right?

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00:09:28,320 –> 00:09:31,400
I really like to leave the office behind.
I’ve always done that.

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At 5:30 or 6:00 in the evening…

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00:09:35,360 –> 00:09:37,520
Many times I spent three…

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00:09:37,600 –> 00:09:42,480
two nights in a row I went
without sleep, in the office,

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00:09:42,560 –> 00:09:46,280
to hand in a project or whatnot.
But this is an exception.

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00:09:46,600 –> 00:09:48,400
Normally I did this:

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at 5:30 p.m. I would go to a certain bar.

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00:09:52,240 –> 00:09:56,480
São Paulo has many,
but for my friends, we had this one.

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And all my friends were there.
We didn’t have a usual table.

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00:10:02,520 –> 00:10:05,680
I’d go to the bar,
then I’d sit at one table or another,

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00:10:05,760 –> 00:10:09,080
and it was very fun.
And I’d leave late at night.

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As you can see, on the other hand,

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00:10:13,120 –> 00:10:15,680
I apologize for saying this myself,

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00:10:15,760 –> 00:10:19,240
but I have the impression that,
regarding others’ interests,

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00:10:19,320 –> 00:10:21,080
my work is well done.

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00:10:21,640 –> 00:10:23,040
So…

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00:10:25,000 –> 00:10:27,280
I’m very dedicated to my work.

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But… when the work is done,
it’s all about having fun.