Project name: SESC 24 de Maio
Address: Rua 24 de Maio, 109, São Paulo – Brazil
Assignation/Destination: Cultural and sports centre + Theatre

Name of client: SESC
Name of architect: Paulo Mendes da Rocha
Collaborator : MMBB Arquitetos

Structural engineering: Kurkdjian e Fruchtengarten Engenheiros Associados
Contractor :

Project status: Complete (2017)

Size of project:
Plot size:

Technical sheet of this architecture video clip
Journalist : Emma C. Dessouroux
Cameramen : Mister Emma / Les Délires Productions

Editing : Cristina Dias
Direction : Mister Emma
Production : Les Délires Productions

Translation : Strakertranslations
Rereading : Serge Ryckoort / Emelire
Subtitles : Strakertranslations

Speakers :
Milton Braga (Architect founder – MMBB Arquitetos) + Gleuson Pinheiro (Architect – MMBB arquitectos) + Paulo Mendes Da Rocha (Architect)

Portuguese Subtitles

1
00:00:12,840 –> 00:00:17,520
Era melhor, em duas palavras pelo menos,
explicar bem, o que é o SESC.

2
00:00:18,320 –> 00:00:25,280
É uma instituição patronal
onde os homens do comércio, os patrões,

3
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amparam, com uma verba enorme que possuem,
que as leis que conseguiram,

4
00:00:32,400 –> 00:00:38,240
obrigam o comércio todo
a pagar um tributo destinado a isso,

5
00:00:39,200 –> 00:00:46,000
a construir o SESC,
que quer dizer serviço social do comércio.

6
00:00:47,160 –> 00:00:52,560
Atrações recreativas educativas
para os funcionários,

7
00:00:52,960 –> 00:00:56,160
os subalternos, portanto,
os empregados no comércio.

8
00:01:04,800 –> 00:01:08,960
Portanto, eles fazem construções

9
00:01:09,640 –> 00:01:15,880
onde investem fortunas,
altos investimentos em territórios

10
00:01:15,960 –> 00:01:21,800
e terrenos que sabem que são acessíveis
junto a transporte público, metrô, etc.

11
00:01:21,880 –> 00:01:26,920
E eles chamam arquitetos que consideram

12
00:01:28,120 –> 00:01:30,680
os mais capazes para esses projetos

13
00:01:30,760 –> 00:01:35,760
que vão realizando sempre e ampliando
de acordo com aquilo que vai crescendo

14
00:01:36,560 –> 00:01:38,280
em todas as cidades do Brasil.

15
00:01:39,400 –> 00:01:43,040
São Paulo, sendo a cidade que é,
20 milhões de habitantes,

16
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você vai imaginar
quantas unidades existem de SESC

17
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e que importância tem isso aqui.

18
00:01:50,120 –> 00:01:53,320
No caso da 24 de Maio,
foi justamente o que se deu.

19
00:01:53,400 –> 00:01:58,360
Uma loja de departamentos
em um prédio de 15 andares

20
00:01:58,440 –> 00:02:00,000
desativada há muito tempo

21
00:02:00,080 –> 00:02:02,880
eles compraram
para transformar o edifício,

22
00:02:03,520 –> 00:02:06,200
em pleno centro da cidade de São Paulo,

23
00:02:06,280 –> 00:02:12,120
um edifício que contivesse esse programa
que não é do arquiteto, é do SESC.

24
00:02:12,640 –> 00:02:15,760
Esse é um prédio, como todo SESC,
que tem muitos usos:

25
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tem esporte, tem cultura, lazer.

26
00:02:19,400 –> 00:02:23,920
Cultura, artes visuais,
teatro, dança, é muita coisa.

27
00:02:24,320 –> 00:02:28,080
É um prédio
com todo esse programa público

28
00:02:28,160 –> 00:02:30,280
e o programa público a gente sabe,

29
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se potencializa
se houver mais continuidade espacial,

30
00:02:33,840 –> 00:02:36,560
mais relação entre as coisas,
entre as pessoas.

31
00:02:36,640 –> 00:02:39,640
Uma coisa contamina a outra,
no bom sentido, ativa a outra.

32
00:02:40,080 –> 00:02:43,360
E quando está
em uma organização espacial vertical,

33
00:02:43,440 –> 00:02:46,440
é mais difícil
obter essa continuidade espacial.

34
00:02:46,720 –> 00:02:52,520
E aqui, então, o que se fez
foi quase empilhar edifícios horizontais

35
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e cada um desses usos, por exemplo,
a piscina, pega alguns andares.

36
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A piscina tem o tanque e o solarium
lá em cima, no último andar, na cobertura,

37
00:03:03,120 –> 00:03:07,160
é a imagem mais conhecida
desse SESC 24 de Maio.

38
00:03:07,240 –> 00:03:10,640
Ao lado do tanque,
que tem uma altura, é um andar inteiro,

39
00:03:10,720 –> 00:03:12,840
ficam os vestiários e embaixo,

40
00:03:12,920 –> 00:03:15,920
aqui onde estamos, é o jardim da piscina,

41
00:03:16,160 –> 00:03:19,040
é o sol e a sombra para os banhistas.

42
00:03:19,520 –> 00:03:22,920
Com isso, uma área
que em planta não é muito grande,

43
00:03:23,000 –> 00:03:25,840
porque é um prédio que tem que ser
vertical, não pode se espalhar,

44
00:03:25,920 –> 00:03:27,800
acaba sendo uma área grande.

45
00:03:28,240 –> 00:03:32,520
E para que ela tenha essa associação
tem que ter elementos comuns.

46
00:03:32,600 –> 00:03:34,120
E essa água aqui embaixo,

47
00:03:34,200 –> 00:03:38,240
especialmente agora
que as crianças entram, é a piscina delas,

48
00:03:38,320 –> 00:03:42,000
acaba fazendo com que as pessoas
percebam que isso aqui é uma coisa só.

49
00:03:45,160 –> 00:03:48,520
Acho que tem uma situação
que também é bastante interessante,

50
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o Milton já mencionou o nome
daquele andar em que a gente estava,

51
00:03:52,920 –> 00:03:56,120
que é o jardim da piscina,
que é uma situação no centro

52
00:03:56,200 –> 00:03:58,720
de ter alguns poucos jardins,

53
00:03:58,800 –> 00:04:04,480
usos da cobertura dos edifícios
que têm acesso público.

54
00:04:05,080 –> 00:04:12,400
E o SESC, nesse local da cidade,
aparece como um mirante de acesso franco,

55
00:04:12,480 –> 00:04:21,880
e isso é uma situação bastante utilizada
pela população que frequenta o centro.

56
00:04:21,960 –> 00:04:25,040
Obviamente, a arquitetura
também pode criar outros recursos

57
00:04:25,320 –> 00:04:31,440
que estabeleçam essa ligação,
essa continuidade espacial ou de sentidos.

58
00:04:31,840 –> 00:04:37,200
Nesse caso, aquele vazio
por onde inclusive cai água da piscina,

59
00:04:37,560 –> 00:04:39,560
vem um barulho também dos banhistas,

60
00:04:39,640 –> 00:04:42,640
é super importante
para criar essa relação.

61
00:04:48,080 –> 00:04:52,440
Aqui eu acho que vale falar um pouquinho
da organização da construção.

62
00:04:53,520 –> 00:04:55,160
Acho que todo mundo sabe,

63
00:04:55,240 –> 00:04:58,560
o SESC 24 de Maio
aproveitou o antigo edifício da Mesbla,

64
00:04:58,840 –> 00:05:00,400
um edifício de…

65
00:05:00,480 –> 00:05:05,320
A Mesbla é uma loja de departamentos
que pegava o térreo e duas sobrelojas

66
00:05:05,880 –> 00:05:10,280
com uma cúpula até e depois sobre isso,
havia um conjunto de escritórios

67
00:05:10,560 –> 00:05:12,240
e uma estrutura em U.

68
00:05:12,320 –> 00:05:15,320
Originalmente um primeiro um L
e dez anos depois

69
00:05:15,400 –> 00:05:17,360
construíram a terceira perna.

70
00:05:17,440 –> 00:05:20,280
Isso deve ter sido
nos anos 40, 50 do século 20.

71
00:05:20,600 –> 00:05:21,960
Cheia de pilares.

72
00:05:22,480 –> 00:05:26,760
E a primeira vez que viemos
aqui ao terreno com o Paulo Mendes,

73
00:05:27,080 –> 00:05:30,160
vimos, o Paulo viu,
um predinho pequenininho,

74
00:05:30,560 –> 00:05:35,280
7 x 25 metros, um lote pequeno,
um edifício feito para ser um restaurante,

75
00:05:35,640 –> 00:05:40,680
muito difícil de ser refuncionalizado
porque era pequeno e desproporcional

76
00:05:40,760 –> 00:05:44,400
em relação ao resto e o Paulo falou,
« Acho que isso não vai dar certo.

77
00:05:44,480 –> 00:05:47,400
O melhor a fazer é que o SESC compre

78
00:05:47,480 –> 00:05:49,440
e a gente integra isso ao conjunto. »

79
00:05:49,520 –> 00:05:53,840
Praticamente, foi possível fazer
aquilo que o SESC pretendia

80
00:05:54,240 –> 00:05:58,640
por essa estratégia de comprar
o terreno do lado como anexo,

81
00:05:58,720 –> 00:06:04,160
porque nessa pequena área
separada por três metros,

82
00:06:04,240 –> 00:06:07,240
que se fez pontes de ligação
em cada andar,

83
00:06:07,320 –> 00:06:09,240
nesse pequeno anexo,

84
00:06:09,320 –> 00:06:11,680
que não é tão pequeno assim,
afinal de contas, né,

85
00:06:12,600 –> 00:06:19,000
150 metros quadrados por andar,
estão todas as instalações sanitárias,

86
00:06:19,080 –> 00:06:23,920
todos os reservatórios de água,
todas as máquinas para refrigeração,

87
00:06:24,000 –> 00:06:29,360
climatização, todos os depósitos,
por exemplo, para a cozinha, frigoríficos.

88
00:06:29,640 –> 00:06:35,360
Principalmente com jogo de elevador
que sai nessa rua lateral só para serviço,

89
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o que faz com que o outro edifício
fique totalmente aliviado

90
00:06:40,440 –> 00:06:44,760
desses encargos de serviços auxiliares.

91
00:06:45,200 –> 00:06:49,280
É muito bonito porque fica realmente
como um vizinho muito próximo,

92
00:06:49,360 –> 00:06:52,920
já fora dessa regularidade
do terreno original.

93
00:07:01,760 –> 00:07:08,120
E nesse terreno original, a terceira ala
tinha uma série de escadas pequenas

94
00:07:08,200 –> 00:07:11,960
e elevadores que ficavam aqui
onde estamos agora,

95
00:07:12,360 –> 00:07:18,280
onde buscamos fazer então
uma nova instalação para circulação

96
00:07:18,640 –> 00:07:20,840
e deixar o máximo de vazios possíveis.

97
00:07:27,880 –> 00:07:31,840
As mais surpreendentes imagens
desse prédio estão nesses vazios,

98
00:07:31,920 –> 00:07:34,720
tanto para quem olha para cima
como para quem olha para baixo.

99
00:07:34,800 –> 00:07:38,880
Quem está lá embaixo entrando no teatro,
quando olha para cima, pode ver o céu.

100
00:07:42,680 –> 00:07:45,200
Fizemos uma rampa contínua
para dar a ideia

101
00:07:45,280 –> 00:07:49,000
da própria cidade em desenvolvimento.
Quem não quiser usar o elevador,

102
00:07:49,080 –> 00:07:51,640
pode ir subindo devagar aquilo tudo, etc.

103
00:07:57,160 –> 00:07:59,600
As rampas que a gente vê lá no fundo

104
00:08:00,280 –> 00:08:05,240
é talvez o elemento arquitetônico
mais importante do projeto,

105
00:08:05,680 –> 00:08:08,680
porque as rampas,
juntamente com aquela fachada

106
00:08:09,000 –> 00:08:10,800
cujo desenho é muito forte,

107
00:08:11,280 –> 00:08:14,480
é a fachada mais importante
porque é a imagem mais presente

108
00:08:14,560 –> 00:08:16,120
para os usuários do SESC.

109
00:08:16,440 –> 00:08:20,000
E ela é importante e presente
porque ela está em todos os andares.

110
00:08:28,360 –> 00:08:32,440
Bom, essa frente toda
seria possível fazer ao ar livre,

111
00:08:32,960 –> 00:08:37,680
quer dizer, coberta, porém sem parede,
mas tem a chuva de vento, coisas assim.

112
00:08:38,320 –> 00:08:40,880
Portanto, pareceu interessante envidraçar.

113
00:08:41,680 –> 00:08:43,840
Ao mesmo tempo tem que respirar,

114
00:08:44,240 –> 00:08:49,680
é fácil deixar uma pequena fresta
nos vidros que resista ao efeito de sopro.

115
00:08:50,080 –> 00:08:56,240
Aí você entra com engenheiros que
te assessoram para chegar a esse resultado

116
00:08:56,720 –> 00:09:00,440
e se fosse possível esse pano de vidro

117
00:09:00,760 –> 00:09:04,080
não repetir simplesmente um prédio,

118
00:09:04,160 –> 00:09:07,600
a fachada de um prédio,
e nos fez imaginar

119
00:09:07,680 –> 00:09:11,840
aquela estrutura em grade de treliça,

120
00:09:11,920 –> 00:09:14,920
e com isso, resultou naquilo
que tem a sua graça, né.

121
00:09:15,880 –> 00:09:19,000
É uma fachada transparente que respira

122
00:09:20,240 –> 00:09:24,080
no sentido de ventilação natural,
coisas assim.

123
00:09:27,200 –> 00:09:32,000
Preservar essa estrutura
foi um ensaio importante

124
00:09:32,800 –> 00:09:35,320
para saber que aqui
a gente não precisa reconstruir tudo,

125
00:09:35,400 –> 00:09:40,160
a gente pode reciclar,
aproveitar aquilo que já está feito.

126
00:09:40,680 –> 00:09:43,960
E obviamente, aproveitando essa estrutura,

127
00:09:44,760 –> 00:09:50,320
nós economizamos um monte de lixo,
nós não geramos um monte de lixo.

128
00:09:50,600 –> 00:09:55,440
Aqui nós aproveitamos integralmente
toda estrutura e fundação que já havia.

129
00:09:55,520 –> 00:09:59,400
Tudo que é novo, ou é em aço
ou em concreto aparente,

130
00:09:59,800 –> 00:10:02,480
e aquilo que é existente
está pintado de branco.

131
00:10:03,320 –> 00:10:07,240
Nós vamos ver também
que nessa estrutura original de U

132
00:10:07,320 –> 00:10:13,120
foram encaixadas no miolo quatro colunas
que estruturam a parte nova,

133
00:10:13,200 –> 00:10:18,800
a grosso modo, e que acabam alojando
os espaços mais importantes,

134
00:10:18,880 –> 00:10:21,040
os espaços que dependem de grandes vãos.

135
00:10:34,240 –> 00:10:39,200
A gente vê aqui em branco
a chuva de pilares da ala histórica,

136
00:10:39,280 –> 00:10:41,000
essa é a mais nova,
que tem menos pilares,

137
00:10:41,080 –> 00:10:42,880
as outras tem mais pilares ainda.

138
00:10:43,840 –> 00:10:47,000
E a gente vê como é bonito, né,
um filme mesmo, é um festival.

139
00:10:47,080 –> 00:10:48,760
Estamos vendo ali
uma aula de ginástica.

140
00:10:48,840 –> 00:10:51,560
Mas o que eu queria destacar
é que a gente tem um grande salão

141
00:10:51,640 –> 00:10:53,960
que foi construído
no miolo do prédio antigo

142
00:10:54,040 –> 00:10:56,800
com as quatro colunas de concreto,
uma delas está aqui.

143
00:10:57,200 –> 00:10:59,240
Isso é novo, isso é existente.

144
00:10:59,520 –> 00:11:03,800
E um pé direto duplo,
então esse vazio central permitiu

145
00:11:03,880 –> 00:11:08,080
não apenas espaços amplos na horizontal,
mas espaços amplos na vertical

146
00:11:08,440 –> 00:11:10,160
que um edifício publico precisa.

147
00:11:20,000 –> 00:11:22,560
Aqui é a espera da odontologia,

148
00:11:22,640 –> 00:11:26,560
mas tem uma coisa aqui
que eu acho que é super bacana de destacar

149
00:11:27,160 –> 00:11:32,320
que é o fato de, nessa variedade toda
de usos e às vezes até de soluções,

150
00:11:32,880 –> 00:11:34,960
a gente ter alguns elementos comuns.

151
00:11:35,400 –> 00:11:37,280
Eu já falei das rampas, da fachada.

152
00:11:37,640 –> 00:11:41,040
O outro elemento que eu acho
que é muito importante para costurar tudo

153
00:11:41,120 –> 00:11:43,960
é o mobiliário,
que esse mobiliário está em toda parte.

154
00:11:56,640 –> 00:12:02,240
Nós começamos o projeto em 2001,
terminamos em 2009, ele parou, continuou,

155
00:12:02,960 –> 00:12:05,760
e a obra mesmo terminou em 2017.

156
00:12:05,840 –> 00:12:09,480
E o mundo mudou muito nesses 15 anos,
até mais que 15 anos.

157
00:12:09,560 –> 00:12:11,360
Então nós temos aqui a biblioteca.

158
00:12:11,440 –> 00:12:15,440
E quando começamos, era muito comum,
aqui no Brasil pelo menos,

159
00:12:15,920 –> 00:12:21,200
as bibliotecas terem uma área onde se
oferecia internet livre para as pessoas.

160
00:12:21,560 –> 00:12:23,200
Obviamente,
quando o prédio foi inaugurado,

161
00:12:23,280 –> 00:12:26,120
isso já não era mais necessário,
a internet está no bolso.

162
00:12:26,480 –> 00:12:30,800
Aí surgiu um novo programa
que dá umas imagens muito bonitas

163
00:12:30,880 –> 00:12:35,920
que é arte e tecnologia
no lugar dessa sala de internet livre.

164
00:12:36,000 –> 00:12:39,800
Obviamente, esse prédio tem que ser,
antes de qualquer outra coisa,

165
00:12:39,880 –> 00:12:43,040
um belo contêiner ou um continente

166
00:12:43,120 –> 00:12:45,600
para conteúdos
que vão variar ao longo do tempo.

167
00:12:45,680 –> 00:12:49,040
Cada vez mais, os usos vão ser mutantes.

168
00:12:49,640 –> 00:12:52,200
Então no fundo,
hoje a tarefa da arquitetura,

169
00:12:52,280 –> 00:12:56,000
que eu acho que aqui
foi feita apropriadamente,

170
00:12:56,080 –> 00:12:58,240
é criar uma infraestrutura,

171
00:12:58,560 –> 00:13:03,640
o prédio vira quase que um hardware
para softwares variados que vão surgindo.

172
00:13:11,560 –> 00:13:12,920
Aqui no centro,

173
00:13:13,000 –> 00:13:17,040
o Gleuson já comentou
sobre a beleza de ter um mirante

174
00:13:17,120 –> 00:13:19,160
aberto ao público lá no alto,

175
00:13:20,040 –> 00:13:23,800
nos pareceu também que,
como é um prédio muito fechadão,

176
00:13:23,880 –> 00:13:27,960
em uma área muito construída,
que seria bonito deixar um andar livre,

177
00:13:28,040 –> 00:13:31,480
sem janelas, como se fosse
uma espécie de jardim dentro do prédio.

178
00:13:31,560 –> 00:13:34,680
É um jardim no sentido metafórico,
não tem nenhuma vegetação,

179
00:13:35,040 –> 00:13:39,920
mas é um andar totalmente aberto
e é nesse andar que as pessoas vêm da rua

180
00:13:40,360 –> 00:13:43,760
às vezes descansar, é quase
como se fosse uma marquise da cidade,

181
00:13:43,840 –> 00:13:47,800
um chão muito urbano,
um chão muito da cidade

182
00:13:47,880 –> 00:13:51,520
aqui em cima, tomando essa brisa,
esse ar fresco, o Brasil é quente,

183
00:13:51,800 –> 00:13:54,280
onde as pessoas descansam,
principalmente depois do almoço.

184
00:13:59,760 –> 00:14:02,920
Aqui nós colocamos
como mobiliário esses praticáveis,

185
00:14:03,200 –> 00:14:07,040
que são os módulos
que servem de bancos, servem de cama,

186
00:14:07,120 –> 00:14:11,360
servem de palco, servem de arquibancada,
e a cada dia que eu venho aqui,

187
00:14:11,440 –> 00:14:13,680
a disposição deles está de um jeito.

188
00:14:14,480 –> 00:14:17,640
Eu já vi gente dormindo nesses móveis.

189
00:14:20,040 –> 00:14:23,120
Esse é um andar
em que dá para ver bem as três alas.

190
00:14:23,200 –> 00:14:26,240
Tem uma viga invertida,
aquela mureta é estrutural,

191
00:14:26,320 –> 00:14:31,360
a gente não pode derrubar,
separando o L da terceira perna do U.

192
00:14:32,000 –> 00:14:36,440
E aí a gente aproveitou essa viga
que está dos dois lados para apoiar mesas

193
00:14:37,360 –> 00:14:40,120
que acabam até sendo
os lugares mais disputados,

194
00:14:40,200 –> 00:14:43,040
onde tem tomada,
onde as pessoas podem trabalhar.

195
00:14:49,640 –> 00:14:55,040
Essa é uma região
que tem diversas galerias comerciais

196
00:14:55,120 –> 00:15:00,960
que são esses edifícios verticais
que têm as lojas e outros usos

197
00:15:01,040 –> 00:15:05,200
e que também têm esses espaços
que são terraços, espaços de estar.

198
00:15:05,680 –> 00:15:11,640
E aqui de frente tem a galeria Presidente
que é conhecida como a galeria do reggae.

199
00:15:11,720 –> 00:15:18,040
E esse andar fica justamente na mesma cota
que um dos andares da galeria do reggae,

200
00:15:18,120 –> 00:15:21,720
então tem essa situação
de ter o estar desse lado

201
00:15:21,800 –> 00:15:24,200
e ter o estar
do outro lado da rua também.

202
00:15:33,120 –> 00:15:36,920
Foi uma decisão clara nossa
de expor todas as instalações.

203
00:15:38,360 –> 00:15:42,720
O prédio existente não permitia
um ajuste muito previsível,

204
00:15:42,800 –> 00:15:47,560
já estava dado, então para não ter
esse conflito de instalações

205
00:15:47,640 –> 00:15:50,880
que não deveriam aparecer,
resolvemos que apareceriam todas,

206
00:15:51,160 –> 00:15:53,040
o que é muito bom para manutenção.

207
00:15:55,760 –> 00:15:57,840
XXX

208
00:16:03,320 –> 00:16:06,040
Isso aqui que a gente
está vendo é a fila do restaurante,

209
00:16:07,200 –> 00:16:11,440
que é um restaurante super capaz,
oferece muitas refeições.

210
00:16:11,520 –> 00:16:13,360
É um grande restaurante, não é pequeno.

211
00:16:13,440 –> 00:16:16,840
É proporcional
à importância da instituição

212
00:16:17,200 –> 00:16:20,200
mas como o preço é muito bom,
há um certo subsídio

213
00:16:20,280 –> 00:16:23,240
e como a comida parece que agrada,

214
00:16:24,680 –> 00:16:29,240
todos os dias
há uma fila razoável, respeitável.

215
00:16:38,600 –> 00:16:43,880
Aqui é a espera da administração,
que está em uma ala inteira

216
00:16:44,160 –> 00:16:47,040
na fachada da rua 24 de Maio.

217
00:16:47,640 –> 00:16:50,280
É agradável, né,
todo mundo trabalhando junto da janela,

218
00:16:50,880 –> 00:16:54,080
e é um vazio, quer dizer,
ali está o vazio da entrada.

219
00:16:54,160 –> 00:16:56,560
O que a gente está vendo ali
é a obra da Carmela Gross

220
00:16:56,640 –> 00:17:00,400
recortada pelo guarda-corpo
e a caixa d’água,

221
00:17:00,480 –> 00:17:03,960
são duas células de água
que ficam bem no meio do salão.

222
00:17:04,040 –> 00:17:08,000
É uma coisa curiosa
porque não tinha um lugar melhor para pôr,

223
00:17:08,080 –> 00:17:09,120
então ficou lá mesmo.

224
00:17:16,440 –> 00:17:20,880
As primeiras decisões do Paulo foram
piscina na cobertura, teatro no subsolo.

225
00:17:20,960 –> 00:17:24,760
Mas esses quatro pilares
cravados lá embaixo

226
00:17:24,840 –> 00:17:30,920
em uma profundidade adequada,
permitiu escavar abaixo do nível da rua

227
00:17:31,000 –> 00:17:38,120
para fazer a plateia de um teatro,
que inclusive fica muito bem lá embaixo

228
00:17:38,200 –> 00:17:40,800
saindo no térreo porque tem autonomia.

229
00:17:40,880 –> 00:17:43,600
O teatro pode funcionar
até meia note, uma hora.

230
00:17:44,040 –> 00:17:46,000
E um teatro e um café, fizemos.

231
00:17:47,320 –> 00:17:48,640
Eu quero um café.

232
00:17:55,160 –> 00:17:57,760
Eu vou querer… pode ser um café.

233
00:18:02,920 –> 00:18:04,520
Fazia tempo que eu não vinha no sábado,

234
00:18:04,600 –> 00:18:05,920
no sábado é mais movimentando.

235
00:18:08,240 –> 00:18:13,960
Eu achei muito interessante
um termo que a Bienal de Arquitetura

236
00:18:14,400 –> 00:18:19,920
está utilizando e o edifício propõe
que é o da máquina urbana.

237
00:18:20,520 –> 00:18:24,600
Eu acho que é isso,
o edifício é essa grande máquina,

238
00:18:24,680 –> 00:18:30,800
esse compartimento
que está sempre em mudança.

239
00:18:30,880 –> 00:18:34,280
Embora seja uma unidade,
um edifício, uma instituição,

240
00:18:34,360 –> 00:18:39,360
mas ele é só um suporte,
um abrigo para os mais variados usos

241
00:18:39,440 –> 00:18:44,240
e esse uso muda tanto ao longo do dia
como ao longo dos dias da semana

242
00:18:44,320 –> 00:18:46,400
ao longo do ano também.

243
00:18:56,480 –> 00:19:00,400
E o que eu acho muito bacana destacar
é que o centro é cheio de galerias,

244
00:19:00,760 –> 00:19:05,040
essas passagens urbanas, ruas cobertas,
passagens por dentro de edifícios,

245
00:19:05,400 –> 00:19:07,000
e o SESC é mais uma dessas.

246
00:19:07,600 –> 00:19:10,760
Você pode passar de um lado ao outro
sem nenhum controle,

247
00:19:10,840 –> 00:19:12,720
não há uma porta, não há uma portaria.

248
00:19:13,240 –> 00:19:17,440
Isso faz com que o prédio
seja muito aberto à população vizinha.

249
00:19:18,040 –> 00:19:21,280
O centro de São Paulo
é um lugar muito democrático,

250
00:19:21,960 –> 00:19:27,360
uma qualidade urbana razoável,
então aqui aparece a cidade verdadeira,

251
00:19:27,720 –> 00:19:30,000
as pessoas mais pobres,
as pessoas mais ricas,

252
00:19:30,080 –> 00:19:33,800
é um lugar plural e é muito comum
as pessoas mais pobres

253
00:19:33,880 –> 00:19:36,400
não se sentirem
no direito de entrar nos lugares,

254
00:19:37,120 –> 00:19:39,680
mesmo em lugres públicos,
instituições públicas,

255
00:19:39,760 –> 00:19:44,280
quando essa relação do edifício com a rua
é menos franca, menos aberta.

256
00:19:44,720 –> 00:19:47,680
No SESC não, elas entram,
nós vimos lá na convivência

257
00:19:48,120 –> 00:19:52,480
muita gente que está simplesmente
descansando porque não tem para onde ir

258
00:19:52,760 –> 00:19:55,960
e que acaba aproveitando
que esse é um prédio tão aberto

259
00:19:56,040 –> 00:19:59,440
e tão convidativo
e acaba entrando no prédio.

260
00:19:59,840 –> 00:20:04,040
Eu acho isso uma das coisas
mais bonitas aqui do projeto do SESC.

French Subtitles

1
00:00:12,840 –> 00:00:17,520
Il vaudrait mieux d’abord
expliquer ce qu’est le SESC.

2
00:00:18,320 –> 00:00:25,280
C’est une institution patronale
où des employeurs commerciaux, des patrons

3
00:00:25,840 –> 00:00:32,320
versent une somme importante,
comme l’exige la loi,

4
00:00:32,400 –> 00:00:38,240
tout commerce est tenu
de payer un impôt dans ce but,

5
00:00:39,200 –> 00:00:46,000
pour financer le SESC,
qui signifie Service Social du Commerce.

6
00:00:47,160 –> 00:00:52,560
Des attractions récréatives
et éducatives pour les employés,

7
00:00:52,960 –> 00:00:56,160
donc, les subordonnés,
les employés du commerce.

8
00:01:04,800 –> 00:01:08,960
Ils ont donc construit des bâtiments

9
00:01:09,640 –> 00:01:15,880
où ils investissent des fortunes,
de grands investissements dans des terres

10
00:01:15,960 –> 00:01:21,800
qu’ils savent facilement accessibles
par transports publics, métro, etc.

11
00:01:21,880 –> 00:01:26,920
Et ils appellent les architectes
qu’ils considèrent

12
00:01:28,120 –> 00:01:30,680
les plus compétents pour ces projets,

13
00:01:30,760 –> 00:01:35,760
qui sont ensuite réalisés et agrandis
en fonction du développement

14
00:01:36,560 –> 00:01:38,280
de toutes les villes brésiliennes.

15
00:01:39,400 –> 00:01:43,040
São Paulo étant une ville
de 20 millions d’habitants,

16
00:01:43,560 –> 00:01:47,160
vous devinez combien
d’unités SESC s’y trouvent,

17
00:01:47,240 –> 00:01:49,400
et leur importance ici.

18
00:01:50,120 –> 00:01:53,320
C’est exactement ce qui s’est passé
pour le SESC 24 de Maio.

19
00:01:53,400 –> 00:01:58,360
Un grand magasin
dans un bâtiment de 15 étages

20
00:01:58,440 –> 00:02:00,000
désaffecté depuis longtemps

21
00:02:00,080 –> 00:02:02,880
a été acheté pour transformer le bâtiment

22
00:02:03,520 –> 00:02:06,200
situé en plein centre de São Paulo,

23
00:02:06,280 –> 00:02:12,120
un bâtiment pouvant abriter ce programme
qui vient du SESC, non de l’architecte.

24
00:02:12,640 –> 00:02:15,760
Comme les autres unités SESC,
ce bâtiment a plusieurs fonctions :

25
00:02:16,040 –> 00:02:19,080
sport, culture, loisirs.

26
00:02:19,400 –> 00:02:23,920
Culture, arts visuels, théâtre, danse…
beaucoup de choses.

27
00:02:24,320 –> 00:02:28,080
C’est un bâtiment à programme public,

28
00:02:28,160 –> 00:02:30,280
et on sait qu’un programme public

29
00:02:30,560 –> 00:02:33,760
est amélioré
quand il y a continuité spatiale,

30
00:02:33,840 –> 00:02:36,560
une relation entre les choses,
entre les gens.

31
00:02:36,640 –> 00:02:39,640
Les choses se contaminent positivement,
elles s’activent.

32
00:02:40,080 –> 00:02:43,360
Et quand on est
dans une organisation spatiale verticale,

33
00:02:43,440 –> 00:02:46,440
la continuité spatiale
est plus difficile à obtenir.

34
00:02:46,720 –> 00:02:52,520
Ce qui a été fait ici, c’est presque
comme empiler des bâtiments horizontaux

35
00:02:52,920 –> 00:02:57,560
et chacun de ces équipements, par exemple,
la piscine, prend plusieurs étages.

36
00:02:57,640 –> 00:03:02,760
Le bassin et le solarium de la piscine
sont au dernier étage, sur le toit,

37
00:03:03,120 –> 00:03:07,160
c’est l’image la plus connue
du SESC 24 de Maio.

38
00:03:07,240 –> 00:03:10,640
Le bassin est très grand,
il occupe un étage entier.

39
00:03:10,720 –> 00:03:12,840
À côté, il y a les vestiaires
et en dessous,

40
00:03:12,920 –> 00:03:15,920
là où nous sommes,
se trouve le jardin de piscine,

41
00:03:16,160 –> 00:03:19,040
les nageurs ont ainsi
le soleil et l’ombre.

42
00:03:19,520 –> 00:03:22,920
Ainsi, une zone
qui n’est pas très grande dans le plan,

43
00:03:23,000 –> 00:03:25,840
dans un bâtiment vertical
qui ne peut être agrandi,

44
00:03:25,920 –> 00:03:27,800
devient une grande zone.

45
00:03:28,240 –> 00:03:32,520
Et pour qu’il y ait cette association,
il doit y avoir des éléments communs.

46
00:03:32,600 –> 00:03:34,120
Cette eau en bas,

47
00:03:34,200 –> 00:03:38,240
où vont surtout les enfants,
c’est leur piscine,

48
00:03:38,320 –> 00:03:42,000
ça fait comprendre aux gens
que tout ça forme un tout.

49
00:03:45,160 –> 00:03:48,520
Pour moi, c’est une situation
très intéressante,

50
00:03:48,600 –> 00:03:52,840
Milton a déjà évoqué
le nom de cet étage où nous étions,

51
00:03:52,920 –> 00:03:56,120
le jardin de piscine,
le fait que le centre-ville

52
00:03:56,200 –> 00:03:58,720
a très peu de jardins,

53
00:03:58,800 –> 00:04:04,480
et l’utilisation des toits des bâtiments
avec accès public.

54
00:04:05,080 –> 00:04:12,400
Dans cette partie de la ville,
le SESC devient un belvédère à accès libre

55
00:04:12,480 –> 00:04:21,880
et l’installation est largement utilisée
par le public qui vient au centre-ville.

56
00:04:21,960 –> 00:04:25,040
Il est clair que l’architecture
peut aussi créer d’autres ressources

57
00:04:25,320 –> 00:04:31,440
qui établissent cette connexion,
ce sentiment ou continuité spatiale.

58
00:04:31,840 –> 00:04:37,200
Dans ce cas, sur ce vide
où coule l’eau de la piscine,

59
00:04:37,560 –> 00:04:39,560
on entend aussi le bruit des baigneurs,

60
00:04:39,640 –> 00:04:42,640
il est très important
de créer cette relation.

61
00:04:48,080 –> 00:04:52,440
L’organisation de la construction
vaut la peine d’être mentionnée.

62
00:04:53,520 –> 00:04:55,160
Comme chacun le sait peut-être,

63
00:04:55,240 –> 00:04:58,560
le SESC 24 de Maio a profité
du vieux bâtiment Mesbla,

64
00:04:58,840 –> 00:05:00,400
un bâtiment de…

65
00:05:00,480 –> 00:05:05,320
Mesbla était un grand magasin qui occupait
le rez-de-chaussée, deux mezzanines,

66
00:05:05,880 –> 00:05:10,280
un dôme et au-dessus,
il y avait des bureaux d’affaires

67
00:05:10,560 –> 00:05:12,240
et une structure en U.

68
00:05:12,320 –> 00:05:15,320
À l’origine, il était en L
et dix ans plus tard,

69
00:05:15,400 –> 00:05:17,360
une troisième partie a été construite.

70
00:05:17,440 –> 00:05:20,280
Ce devait être dans les années 1940, 1950.

71
00:05:20,600 –> 00:05:21,960
Plein de colonnes.

72
00:05:22,480 –> 00:05:26,760
La première fois que nous sommes
venus ici avec Paulo Mendes,

73
00:05:27,080 –> 00:05:30,160
il a vu un bâtiment minuscule,

74
00:05:30,560 –> 00:05:35,280
7 mètres sur 25, un petit paquet,
un bâtiment conçu pour être un restaurant,

75
00:05:35,640 –> 00:05:40,680
très difficile à réutiliser,
car il était petit et disproportionné

76
00:05:40,760 –> 00:05:44,400
par rapport au reste et Paulo a dit :
« Ça ne marchera pas.

77
00:05:44,480 –> 00:05:47,400
Le mieux à faire pour le SESC
est de l’acheter

78
00:05:47,480 –> 00:05:49,440
pour l’intégrer à l’autre bâtiment. »

79
00:05:49,520 –> 00:05:53,840
On peut dire qu’il a été possible
de faire ce que le SESC souhaitait

80
00:05:54,240 –> 00:05:58,640
grâce à la stratégie d’achat de la terre
à côté, comme annexe,

81
00:05:58,720 –> 00:06:04,160
car dans cette petite zone
séparée de trois mètres,

82
00:06:04,240 –> 00:06:07,240
des passerelles ont été construites
à chaque étage.

83
00:06:07,320 –> 00:06:09,240
Dans cette petite annexe,

84
00:06:09,320 –> 00:06:11,680
qui n’est après tout pas si petite,

85
00:06:12,600 –> 00:06:19,000
chaque étage fait 150 mètres carrés,
l’ensemble des installations sanitaires,

86
00:06:19,080 –> 00:06:23,920
réservoirs d’eau,
machines de réfrigération,

87
00:06:24,000 –> 00:06:29,360
climatiseurs, équipements de cuisine,
congélateurs, etc., y sont situés.

88
00:06:29,640 –> 00:06:35,360
Les ascenseurs de service
ont des sorties du côté rue,

89
00:06:35,840 –> 00:06:39,800
ce qui soulage totalement l’autre bâtiment

90
00:06:40,440 –> 00:06:44,760
de ces fardeaux de service secondaires.

91
00:06:45,200 –> 00:06:49,280
C’est très beau,
car c’est comme un voisin tout proche

92
00:06:49,360 –> 00:06:52,920
qui sort de la régularité
du terrain d’origine.

93
00:07:01,760 –> 00:07:08,120
Sur le site d’origine, la troisième aile
avait une série de petits escaliers

94
00:07:08,200 –> 00:07:11,960
et d’ascenseurs ici même,
là où nous sommes,

95
00:07:12,360 –> 00:07:15,000
où nous avons voulu construire

96
00:07:15,080 –> 00:07:18,280
une nouvelle installation
pour faciliter le déplacement des gens

97
00:07:18,640 –> 00:07:20,840
et laisser autant d’espaces vides
que possible.

98
00:07:27,880 –> 00:07:31,840
Ces vides sont les images
les plus remarquables de ce bâtiment,

99
00:07:31,920 –> 00:07:34,720
à la fois quand on regarde
vers le haut et vers le bas.

100
00:07:34,800 –> 00:07:38,880
Si les gens qui vont au théâtre regardent
vers le haut, ils voient le ciel.

101
00:07:42,680 –> 00:07:45,200
Nous avons fait une rampe continue
pour donner l’idée

102
00:07:45,280 –> 00:07:49,000
d’une ville en développement,
si on ne veut pas prendre l’ascenseur,

103
00:07:49,080 –> 00:07:51,640
on peut marcher lentement jusqu’en haut.

104
00:07:57,160 –> 00:07:59,600
Les rampes qu’on voit dans le fond

105
00:08:00,280 –> 00:08:05,240
sont peut-être l’élément architectural
le plus important du projet,

106
00:08:05,680 –> 00:08:08,680
car les rampes, avec cette façade

107
00:08:09,000 –> 00:08:10,800
au design très fort,

108
00:08:11,280 –> 00:08:14,480
constituent la façade la plus importante,
car c’est l’image la plus présente

109
00:08:14,560 –> 00:08:16,120
pour les usagers du SESC.

110
00:08:16,440 –> 00:08:20,000
Elle est importante et présente,
car on la voit de chaque étage.

111
00:08:28,360 –> 00:08:32,440
Il serait possible de laisser
toute cette façade partiellement ouverte,

112
00:08:32,960 –> 00:08:37,680
c’est-à-dire avec un toit mais sans murs,
mais il y a la pluie, le vent, etc.

113
00:08:38,320 –> 00:08:40,880
Nous avons donc décidé de la vitrer.

114
00:08:41,680 –> 00:08:43,840
En même temps, il faut qu’elle respire,

115
00:08:44,240 –> 00:08:47,200
il est facile de laisser un petit espace

116
00:08:47,280 –> 00:08:49,680
résistant au vent
entre les panneaux de verre.

117
00:08:50,080 –> 00:08:56,240
Ensuite, on fait venir les ingénieurs
pour aider à parvenir au résultat.

118
00:08:56,720 –> 00:09:00,440
Et s’il était possible
que ces panneaux de verre

119
00:09:00,760 –> 00:09:04,080
ne fassent pas qu’imiter
simplement un bâtiment,

120
00:09:04,160 –> 00:09:07,600
la façade d’un bâtiment ?
Nous avons alors imaginé

121
00:09:07,680 –> 00:09:11,840
une structure de grille en treillis,

122
00:09:11,920 –> 00:09:14,920
et ça nous a donné ce résultat
assez gracieux, non ?

123
00:09:15,880 –> 00:09:19,000
C’est une façade transparente qui respire,

124
00:09:20,240 –> 00:09:24,080
au sens de la ventilation naturelle,
ce genre de chose.

125
00:09:27,200 –> 00:09:32,000
Le fait de préserver cette structure
a été un test important pour comprendre

126
00:09:32,800 –> 00:09:35,320
que nous n’avions pas
à tout reconstruire ici,

127
00:09:35,400 –> 00:09:40,160
nous pouvons recycler,
tirer parti de ce qui est déjà là.

128
00:09:40,680 –> 00:09:43,960
Et en tirant parti de cette structure,

129
00:09:44,760 –> 00:09:50,320
il y a eu bien moins de déchets,
nous en avons peu généré.

130
00:09:50,600 –> 00:09:55,440
Nous avons profité de la structure
et des fondations existantes.

131
00:09:55,520 –> 00:09:59,400
Tout ce qui est neuf est de l’acier
ou du granulat de béton apparent

132
00:09:59,800 –> 00:10:02,480
et le préexistant est peint en blanc.

133
00:10:03,320 –> 00:10:07,240
Nous verrons aussi
que dans cette structure originale en U,

134
00:10:07,320 –> 00:10:13,120
on a construit quatre colonnes au centre
pour structurer la nouvelle partie,

135
00:10:13,200 –> 00:10:18,800
grosso modo, qui a fini par abriter
les espaces les plus importants,

136
00:10:18,880 –> 00:10:21,040
espaces qui dépendent de grands vides.

137
00:10:34,240 –> 00:10:39,200
On voit ici toutes ces colonnes blanches
dans l’aile préexistante,

138
00:10:39,280 –> 00:10:41,000
voici la nouvelle partie
avec moins de colonnes,

139
00:10:41,080 –> 00:10:42,880
les autres parties en ont encore plus.

140
00:10:43,840 –> 00:10:47,000
On voit comme c’est beau,
c’est comme un film, un festival.

141
00:10:47,080 –> 00:10:48,760
Il y a un cours de gym par là.

142
00:10:48,840 –> 00:10:51,560
Mais je voulais souligner
que nous avons une grande salle

143
00:10:51,640 –> 00:10:53,960
construite dans le centre
du vieux bâtiment,

144
00:10:54,040 –> 00:10:56,800
avec quatre colonnes de béton,
dont en voici une.

145
00:10:57,200 –> 00:10:59,240
Celle-ci est neuve, celle-là est ancienne.

146
00:10:59,520 –> 00:11:03,800
Les plafonds sont très hauts,
ce vide central nous a donc permis d’avoir

147
00:11:03,880 –> 00:11:08,080
de vastes espaces non seulement
horizontaux, mais aussi verticaux,

148
00:11:08,440 –> 00:11:10,160
nécessaires dans un bâtiment public.

149
00:11:20,000 –> 00:11:22,560
Ici, c’est la salle d’attente du dentiste,

150
00:11:22,640 –> 00:11:26,560
mais il y a quelque chose ici
de très sympa que je veux souligner,

151
00:11:27,160 –> 00:11:32,320
c’est le fait qu’avec la diversité
des usages et des solutions,

152
00:11:32,880 –> 00:11:34,960
il y a des éléments communs.

153
00:11:35,400 –> 00:11:37,280
J’ai parlé des rampes et de la façade.

154
00:11:37,640 –> 00:11:41,040
L’autre élément que je trouve important
pour tout relier,

155
00:11:41,120 –> 00:11:43,960
c’est le mobilier qu’on retrouve partout.

156
00:11:56,640 –> 00:11:59,120
Nous avons commencé le projet en 2001,

157
00:11:59,200 –> 00:12:02,240
l’avons terminé en 2009,
il s’est arrêté, a repris

158
00:12:02,960 –> 00:12:05,760
et la construction s’est finie en 2017.

159
00:12:05,840 –> 00:12:09,480
Pendant ces 15 années ou plus,
le monde a beaucoup changé.

160
00:12:09,560 –> 00:12:11,360
Il y a ici une bibliothèque.

161
00:12:11,440 –> 00:12:15,440
Quand le projet a commencé,
il était courant, du moins au Brésil,

162
00:12:15,920 –> 00:12:21,200
que les bibliothèques aient une zone
offrant de l’Internet gratuit.

163
00:12:21,560 –> 00:12:23,200
Naturellement, à l’inauguration,

164
00:12:23,280 –> 00:12:26,120
ce n’était plus nécessaire,
on a désormais Internet en poche.

165
00:12:26,480 –> 00:12:30,800
Un nouveau programme créant
de belles images a été introduit,

166
00:12:30,880 –> 00:12:35,920
nommé « art et technologie »
à la place de la salle d’Internet gratuit.

167
00:12:36,000 –> 00:12:39,800
Naturellement, ce bâtiment
doit être avant toute chose

168
00:12:39,880 –> 00:12:43,040
un beau container ou contenant,

169
00:12:43,120 –> 00:12:45,600
pour des contenus
qui varieront avec le temps.

170
00:12:45,680 –> 00:12:49,040
L’utilisation d’un bâtiment
changera de plus en plus.

171
00:12:49,640 –> 00:12:52,200
Donc, le rôle
de l’architecture aujourd’hui,

172
00:12:52,280 –> 00:12:56,000
ce qui, je crois,
a été fait correctement ici,

173
00:12:56,080 –> 00:12:58,240
c’est de créer une infrastructure,

174
00:12:58,560 –> 00:13:00,600
le bâtiment devient
un matériel informatique

175
00:13:00,680 –> 00:13:03,640
dont émergent différents programmes.

176
00:13:11,560 –> 00:13:12,920
Ici, dans le centre-ville,

177
00:13:13,000 –> 00:13:17,040
Gleuson a déjà évoqué la beauté
d’avoir un belvédère

178
00:13:17,120 –> 00:13:19,160
avec accès public tout en haut,

179
00:13:20,040 –> 00:13:23,800
et il nous a aussi semblé
qu’en tant que bâtiment fermé

180
00:13:23,880 –> 00:13:27,960
dans une zone surconstruite,
ce serait bien de laisser un niveau ouvert

181
00:13:28,040 –> 00:13:31,480
sans fenêtres, comme une sorte
de jardin dans le bâtiment.

182
00:13:31,560 –> 00:13:34,680
C’est un jardin au sens métaphorique,
il n’a pas de végétation,

183
00:13:35,040 –> 00:13:39,920
mais c’est un niveau complètement ouvert
et c’est là où les gens viennent

184
00:13:40,360 –> 00:13:43,760
parfois se reposer,
c’est comme une tonnelle en ville,

185
00:13:43,840 –> 00:13:47,800
un niveau très urbain,
très semblable à une ville,

186
00:13:47,880 –> 00:13:51,520
où les gens peuvent sentir cette brise,
cet air frais, il fait chaud au Brésil.

187
00:13:51,800 –> 00:13:54,280
Les gens viennent s’y reposer,
surtout après le déjeuner.

188
00:13:59,760 –> 00:14:02,920
Nous avons placé ici
ce mobilier fonctionnel,

189
00:14:03,200 –> 00:14:07,040
ce sont ces modules
qui servent de banc, de lit,

190
00:14:07,120 –> 00:14:11,360
de scène, d’estrade,
et chaque fois que je viens,

191
00:14:11,440 –> 00:14:13,680
ils sont disposés différemment.

192
00:14:14,480 –> 00:14:17,640
J’ai vu des gens dormir sur ce mobilier.

193
00:14:20,040 –> 00:14:23,120
Depuis ce niveau,
on voit très bien les trois ailes.

194
00:14:23,200 –> 00:14:26,240
Il y a une poutre inversée,
ce mur est structurel,

195
00:14:26,320 –> 00:14:31,360
on ne peut pas le faire tomber,
séparant le L de la troisième partie du U.

196
00:14:32,000 –> 00:14:36,440
On a donc tiré parti de cette poutre
des deux côtés pour fixer des tables

197
00:14:37,360 –> 00:14:40,120
qui sont devenues
l’espace le plus convoité,

198
00:14:40,200 –> 00:14:43,040
il y a des prises,
les gens peuvent y travailler.

199
00:14:49,640 –> 00:14:55,040
C’est une zone
qui a plusieurs galeries commerciales,

200
00:14:55,120 –> 00:15:00,960
ce sont ces bâtiments verticaux
avec des magasins et autres installations,

201
00:15:01,040 –> 00:15:05,200
ainsi que des terrasses,
des espaces de vie extérieurs.

202
00:15:05,680 –> 00:15:11,640
La galerie du Président est juste devant,
on l’appelle la galerie du reggae.

203
00:15:11,720 –> 00:15:18,040
Cet étage est exactement au même niveau
que l’un des étages de la galerie,

204
00:15:18,120 –> 00:15:21,720
il y a donc un espace de vie
extérieur de ce côté

205
00:15:21,800 –> 00:15:24,200
et un espace de vie extérieur
de l’autre côté aussi.

206
00:15:33,120 –> 00:15:36,920
Nous avons clairement décidé
d’exposer toutes les installations.

207
00:15:38,360 –> 00:15:42,720
Le bâtiment préexistant ne permettait pas
une adaptation très prévisible,

208
00:15:42,800 –> 00:15:47,560
il était déjà en place, alors pour éviter
un conflit entre installations

209
00:15:47,640 –> 00:15:50,880
qui devraient être invisibles,
nous avons décidé que tout serait visible,

210
00:15:51,160 –> 00:15:53,040
et c’est très bien pour l’entretien.

211
00:15:55,760 –> 00:15:57,840
ZONE RESTAURANT

212
00:16:03,320 –> 00:16:06,040
On voit ici la file du restaurant,

213
00:16:07,200 –> 00:16:11,440
c’est un restaurant très efficace
qui sert de nombreux repas.

214
00:16:11,520 –> 00:16:13,360
C’est un très grand restaurant.

215
00:16:13,440 –> 00:16:16,840
Il est proportionnel
à l’importance de l’institution,

216
00:16:17,200 –> 00:16:20,200
mais il propose de bons prix,
il y a une subvention

217
00:16:20,280 –> 00:16:23,240
et comme la nourriture semble attractive,

218
00:16:24,680 –> 00:16:29,240
il y a tous les jours une file
de taille respectable.

219
00:16:38,600 –> 00:16:43,880
Voici la salle d’attente administrative
qui prend une salle entière

220
00:16:44,160 –> 00:16:47,040
sur la façade de la rue 24 de Maio.

221
00:16:47,640 –> 00:16:50,280
C’est très sympa,
on travaille près de la fenêtre

222
00:16:50,880 –> 00:16:54,080
et c’est un vide, c’est-à-dire,
c’est le vide d’entrée.

223
00:16:54,160 –> 00:16:56,560
On voit là le travail de Carmela Gross

224
00:16:56,640 –> 00:17:00,400
couvert en partie par la rambarde
et le réservoir d’eau,

225
00:17:00,480 –> 00:17:03,960
il y a deux réservoirs d’eau
en plein milieu de l’espace.

226
00:17:04,040 –> 00:17:08,000
C’est curieux, car il n’y avait pas
de meilleur endroit pour le mettre,

227
00:17:08,080 –> 00:17:09,120
donc il est resté là.

228
00:17:16,440 –> 00:17:18,640
Les premières décisions de Paulo ont été

229
00:17:18,720 –> 00:17:20,880
d’avoir une piscine de toit
et un théâtre souterrain.

230
00:17:20,960 –> 00:17:24,760
Ces quatre colonnes sculptées en bas

231
00:17:24,840 –> 00:17:30,920
à une profondeur adéquate nous ont permis
de creuser sous le niveau de la rue

232
00:17:31,000 –> 00:17:38,120
pour construire le théâtre
qui est en fait plutôt beau

233
00:17:38,200 –> 00:17:40,800
avec sa sortie au rez-de-chaussée,
ce qui crée de l’autonomie.

234
00:17:40,880 –> 00:17:43,600
Le théâtre peut fonctionner
jusqu’à minuit, une heure.

235
00:17:44,040 –> 00:17:46,000
On a construit un théâtre et un café.

236
00:17:47,320 –> 00:17:48,640
J’aimerais un café.

237
00:17:55,160 –> 00:17:57,760
J’aimerais… disons un café.

238
00:18:02,920 –> 00:18:04,520
Je viens rarement le samedi.

239
00:18:04,600 –> 00:18:05,920
C’est plus fréquenté.

240
00:18:08,240 –> 00:18:13,960
J’ai trouvé un terme très intéressant
utilisé par la Biennale d’architecture

241
00:18:14,400 –> 00:18:19,920
sur l’usage de ce qu’offre le bâtiment,
c’est « machine urbaine ».

242
00:18:20,520 –> 00:18:24,600
Pour moi, c’est ça,
le bâtiment est une grande machine,

243
00:18:24,680 –> 00:18:30,800
un compartiment
qui change perpétuellement.

244
00:18:30,880 –> 00:18:34,280
Bien que ce soit une installation,
un bâtiment, une institution,

245
00:18:34,360 –> 00:18:39,360
ce n’est qu’un moyen,
un abri pour les usages les plus variés,

246
00:18:39,440 –> 00:18:44,240
et cet usage change dans la journée,
selon les jours de la semaine

247
00:18:44,320 –> 00:18:46,400
et aussi tout au long de l’année.

248
00:18:56,480 –> 00:19:00,400
J’aime souligner
que cet endroit est plein de galeries,

249
00:19:00,760 –> 00:19:05,040
passages urbains, rues couvertes,
passages à l’intérieur des bâtiments,

250
00:19:05,400 –> 00:19:07,000
et le SESC en est un.

251
00:19:07,600 –> 00:19:10,760
On peut aller d’un côté à l’autre
sans contrôle,

252
00:19:10,840 –> 00:19:12,720
il n’y a ni porte ni sécurité.

253
00:19:13,240 –> 00:19:17,440
Le bâtiment devient très accueillant
pour la population voisine.

254
00:19:18,040 –> 00:19:21,280
Le centre de São Paulo
est un endroit très démocratique,

255
00:19:21,960 –> 00:19:27,360
il a une qualité urbaine raisonnable,
la vraie ville y est révélée,

256
00:19:27,720 –> 00:19:30,000
les gens les plus pauvres,
les plus riches,

257
00:19:30,080 –> 00:19:33,800
c’est un endroit très pluriel,
et il est courant que les plus pauvres

258
00:19:33,880 –> 00:19:36,400
ne se sentent pas autorisés
à entrer dans des endroits,

259
00:19:37,120 –> 00:19:39,680
même des endroits et institutions publics

260
00:19:39,760 –> 00:19:44,280
quand la relation entre bâtiments et rues
est moins authentique, moins ouverte.

261
00:19:44,720 –> 00:19:47,680
Au SESC, les gens entrent,
on a vu les gens en haut,

262
00:19:48,120 –> 00:19:52,480
beaucoup se reposent simplement,
car ils n’ont nulle part où aller,

263
00:19:52,760 –> 00:19:55,960
et ils profitent d’un bâtiment si ouvert

264
00:19:56,040 –> 00:19:59,440
et accueillant
qu’ils finissent par y entrer.

265
00:19:59,840 –> 00:20:04,040
Pour moi, c’est l’un
des meilleurs aspects du SESC.

English Subtitles

1
00:00:12,840 –> 00:00:17,520
It would be better
to explain what SESC is first.

2
00:00:18,320 –> 00:00:25,280
It is a patronal institution
where commerce employers, the bosses,

3
00:00:25,840 –> 00:00:32,320
pay a large sum of money required by law,

4
00:00:32,400 –> 00:00:38,240
all commerce is obliged
to pay a tax for that purpose,

5
00:00:39,200 –> 00:00:46,000
to fund SESC,
which means Social Service of Commerce.

6
00:00:47,160 –> 00:00:52,560
Educational recreational
attractions for employees,

7
00:00:52,960 –> 00:00:56,160
therefore, the subordinates,
employees from the commerce industry.

8
00:01:04,800 –> 00:01:08,960
So, they build buildings

9
00:01:09,640 –> 00:01:15,880
where they invest fortunes,
high investments in territories and land

10
00:01:15,960 –> 00:01:21,800
they know is easy accessible
by public transport, subway, etc.

11
00:01:21,880 –> 00:01:26,920
And they call architects who they consider

12
00:01:28,120 –> 00:01:30,680
the most capable for these projects,

13
00:01:30,760 –> 00:01:35,760
which are then carried out
and expanded according to the development

14
00:01:36,560 –> 00:01:38,280
of all Brazilian cities.

15
00:01:39,400 –> 00:01:43,040
São Paulo, being a city
with 20 million inhabitants,

16
00:01:43,560 –> 00:01:47,160
you can guess
how many SESC units there are

17
00:01:47,240 –> 00:01:49,400
and its importance here.

18
00:01:50,120 –> 00:01:53,320
Regarding SESC 24 de Maio,
that’s exactly what happened.

19
00:01:53,400 –> 00:01:58,360
A department store in a 15-story building

20
00:01:58,440 –> 00:02:00,000
deactivated a long time ago

21
00:02:00,080 –> 00:02:02,880
was purchased to transform the building

22
00:02:03,520 –> 00:02:06,200
located right in São Paulo’s city center,

23
00:02:06,280 –> 00:02:12,120
a building that could house this program
which isn’t the architect’s, but SESC’s.

24
00:02:12,640 –> 00:02:15,760
Like all other SESC units, this building
is used for different purposes:

25
00:02:16,040 –> 00:02:19,080
sport, culture, leisure.

26
00:02:19,400 –> 00:02:23,920
Culture, visual arts,
theater, dance, a lot of things.

27
00:02:24,320 –> 00:02:28,080
It’s a building with a public program

28
00:02:28,160 –> 00:02:30,280
and we know that a public program

29
00:02:30,560 –> 00:02:33,760
is enhanced
when there is spatial continuity,

30
00:02:33,840 –> 00:02:36,560
a relationship between things,
between people.

31
00:02:36,640 –> 00:02:39,640
One thing contaminates the other
in a good sense, it activates the other.

32
00:02:40,080 –> 00:02:43,360
And when you are
in a vertical spatial organization,

33
00:02:43,440 –> 00:02:46,440
it’s harder to get spatial continuity.

34
00:02:46,720 –> 00:02:52,520
And here, what was done was almost
like stacking horizontal buildings

35
00:02:52,920 –> 00:02:57,560
and each of these features, for example,
the pool, takes up a few floors.

36
00:02:57,640 –> 00:03:02,760
The pool has the tank and the solarium
on the top floor, on the roof,

37
00:03:03,120 –> 00:03:07,160
which is the best known image
of SESC 24 de Maio.

38
00:03:07,240 –> 00:03:10,640
The tank is quite tall,
it occupies an entire floor.

39
00:03:10,720 –> 00:03:12,840
Next to it are the changing rooms
and below,

40
00:03:12,920 –> 00:03:15,920
where we are now, is the pool garden,

41
00:03:16,160 –> 00:03:19,040
it’s the sun and the shade for bathers.

42
00:03:19,520 –> 00:03:22,920
With that, an area that in the blueprint
isn’t very large,

43
00:03:23,000 –> 00:03:25,840
a vertical building
that can’t be expanded,

44
00:03:25,920 –> 00:03:27,800
turns into a large area.

45
00:03:28,240 –> 00:03:32,520
And for it to have this association,
it must have common elements.

46
00:03:32,600 –> 00:03:34,120
This water down here,

47
00:03:34,200 –> 00:03:38,240
especially now that kids go in,
it’s their pool,

48
00:03:38,320 –> 00:03:42,000
it makes people realize
that this is all a single thing.

49
00:03:45,160 –> 00:03:48,520
I think it’s a very interesting situation,

50
00:03:48,600 –> 00:03:52,840
Milton has already mentioned
the name of that floor we were on,

51
00:03:52,920 –> 00:03:56,120
the pool garden,
that the city center

52
00:03:56,200 –> 00:03:58,720
has such few gardens,

53
00:03:58,800 –> 00:04:04,480
and usage of building roofs
with public access.

54
00:04:05,080 –> 00:04:12,400
And in this part of the city,
SESC becomes a viewpoint with free access,

55
00:04:12,480 –> 00:04:21,880
and it’s a widely used facility
by those coming to the city center.

56
00:04:21,960 –> 00:04:25,040
It’s clear that architecture
can also create other resources

57
00:04:25,320 –> 00:04:31,440
that establish that connection,
that sense or spatial continuity.

58
00:04:31,840 –> 00:04:37,200
In this case, on that void
where the pool water falls down,

59
00:04:37,560 –> 00:04:39,560
you can hear the noise
from bathers as well,

60
00:04:39,640 –> 00:04:42,640
it’s super important
to create that relationship.

61
00:04:48,080 –> 00:04:52,440
I think it’s worth mentioning
the organization of the construction.

62
00:04:53,520 –> 00:04:55,160
As everyone might already know,

63
00:04:55,240 –> 00:04:58,560
SESC 24 de Maio took advantage
of the old Mesbla building,

64
00:04:58,840 –> 00:05:00,400
a building of…

65
00:05:00,480 –> 00:05:05,320
Mesbla was a department store
and used the ground floor, two mezzanines,

66
00:05:05,880 –> 00:05:10,280
a dome and above that,
there were business offices

67
00:05:10,560 –> 00:05:12,240
and a U shaped of structure.

68
00:05:12,320 –> 00:05:15,320
Originally, it was L shaped
and ten years later,

69
00:05:15,400 –> 00:05:17,360
a third part was built.

70
00:05:17,440 –> 00:05:20,280
This must have been in the 40s,
50s of the 20th century.

71
00:05:20,600 –> 00:05:21,960
Full of columns.

72
00:05:22,480 –> 00:05:26,760
The first time we came here
with Paulo Mendes

73
00:05:27,080 –> 00:05:30,160
he saw a tiny little building,

74
00:05:30,560 –> 00:05:35,280
7 by 25 meters, a small parcel,
a building designed to be a restaurant,

75
00:05:35,640 –> 00:05:40,680
very difficult to be reused
because it was small and disproportionate

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in relation to the rest and Paulo said,
« I don’t think this will work out.

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The best thing SESC can do is to buy it

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00:05:47,480 –> 00:05:49,440
and we incorporate it
to the other building. »

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We can say that it was possible
to do what SESC intended

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00:05:54,240 –> 00:05:58,640
because of the strategy of buying the land
on the side as an attachment,

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00:05:58,720 –> 00:06:04,160
because in this small area
separated by three meters,

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connection bridges
were built on each floor.

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00:06:07,320 –> 00:06:09,240
In that small attachment,

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00:06:09,320 –> 00:06:11,680
which is not that small, after all,

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00:06:12,600 –> 00:06:19,000
each floor has 150 square meters,
is where all the sanitary facilities,

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00:06:19,080 –> 00:06:23,920
water tanks, refrigeration machines,

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00:06:24,000 –> 00:06:29,360
air conditioning, kitchen supply,
freezers, etc., are located.

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00:06:29,640 –> 00:06:35,360
The service elevators
have exits to the side street,

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00:06:35,840 –> 00:06:39,800
which relieves
the other building completely

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00:06:40,440 –> 00:06:44,760
from these ancillary service burdens.

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00:06:45,200 –> 00:06:49,280
It’s very beautiful
because it’s like a very nearby neighbor

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00:06:49,360 –> 00:06:52,920
out of the regularity
of the original terrain.

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00:07:01,760 –> 00:07:08,120
On this original site, the third wing
had a series of small stairs

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00:07:08,200 –> 00:07:11,960
and elevators here where we are now,

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00:07:12,360 –> 00:07:18,280
where we tried to build a new setup
to facilitate the flow of people

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00:07:18,640 –> 00:07:20,840
and leave as many empty spaces
as possible.

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00:07:27,880 –> 00:07:31,840
The most outstanding images
of this building are these voids,

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00:07:31,920 –> 00:07:34,720
both for those who look up
and for those who look down.

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00:07:34,800 –> 00:07:38,880
When people going to the theater look up,
they can see the sky.

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00:07:42,680 –> 00:07:45,200
We made a continuous ramp to give the idea

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00:07:45,280 –> 00:07:49,000
of a developing city,
whoever doesn’t want to use the elevator

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00:07:49,080 –> 00:07:51,640
can slowly walk all the way up.

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00:07:57,160 –> 00:07:59,600
The ramps we see on the background,

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00:08:00,280 –> 00:08:05,240
are perhaps the most important
architectural element of the project,

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00:08:05,680 –> 00:08:08,680
because the ramps, along with that facade

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00:08:09,000 –> 00:08:10,800
with a very strong design,

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00:08:11,280 –> 00:08:14,480
is the most important facade
because it’s the most common image

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SESC users see.

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00:08:16,440 –> 00:08:20,000
It’s important and common
because it can be seen on every floor.

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00:08:28,360 –> 00:08:32,440
Well, it would be possible to leave
all this facade partially enclosed,

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that is to say, with a roof but no walls,
but we’ve got rain, wind and so on.

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00:08:38,320 –> 00:08:40,880
So we’ve decided to glaze it.

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At the same time it has to breathe,

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it’s easy to leave a small gap
resistant to wind between the glasses.

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00:08:50,080 –> 00:08:56,240
Then you bring in engineers
to help you achieve this result.

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00:08:56,720 –> 00:09:00,440
What if it were possible for this glass

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00:09:00,760 –> 00:09:04,080
not to simply mimic a building,

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00:09:04,160 –> 00:09:07,600
the facade of a building? We thought then

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about a lattice grid structure,

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00:09:11,920 –> 00:09:14,920
and with that, we got this result
which has its grace, right?

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It’s a transparent facade that breathes

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00:09:20,240 –> 00:09:24,080
in the sense of natural ventilation,
things like that.

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00:09:27,200 –> 00:09:32,000
Preserving this structure
was an important test

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00:09:32,800 –> 00:09:35,320
to understand we didn’t need
to rebuild everything here,

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00:09:35,400 –> 00:09:40,160
we can recycle,
take advantage of what was already here.

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00:09:40,680 –> 00:09:43,960
And by taking advantage of this structure,

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there was a lot less garbage,
we didn’t generate a lot of garbage.

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We took full advantage of the preexisting
structure and foundation.

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00:09:55,520 –> 00:09:59,400
Everything that’s new is either steel
or exposed aggregate concrete

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00:09:59,800 –> 00:10:02,480
and what preexisted is painted white.

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00:10:03,320 –> 00:10:07,240
We will also see
that in this original U shaped structure

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four columns were built into the core
to structure the new part,

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00:10:13,200 –> 00:10:18,800
roughly speaking, which ended up
housing the most important spaces,

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00:10:18,880 –> 00:10:21,040
spaces that depend on large voids.

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00:10:34,240 –> 00:10:39,200
We see all those white columns
in the preexisting wing here,

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00:10:39,280 –> 00:10:41,000
this is the newer part with fewer columns,

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00:10:41,080 –> 00:10:42,880
the others parts have even more.

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00:10:43,840 –> 00:10:47,000
And we see how beautiful it is,
it’s like a movie, it’s a festival.

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00:10:47,080 –> 00:10:48,760
That’s a gym class over there.

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00:10:48,840 –> 00:10:51,560
But what I wanted to highlight
is that we have a big hall

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00:10:51,640 –> 00:10:53,960
that was built into the core
of the old building

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00:10:54,040 –> 00:10:56,800
with four concrete columns,
and one of them is here.

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00:10:57,200 –> 00:10:59,240
This is new, this was here before.

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00:10:59,520 –> 00:11:03,800
And really high ceilings,
so that central void allowed us to have

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00:11:03,880 –> 00:11:08,080
not only wide spaces horizontally,
but wide spaces vertically

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00:11:08,440 –> 00:11:10,160
which is what a public building needs.

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00:11:20,000 –> 00:11:22,560
Here is the dentistry waiting area,

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00:11:22,640 –> 00:11:26,560
but there is something here
that I think is super cool to highlight

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00:11:27,160 –> 00:11:32,320
which is the fact that,
with the variety of uses and solutions,

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00:11:32,880 –> 00:11:34,960
there are some common elements.

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00:11:35,400 –> 00:11:37,280
I already mentioned the ramps, the facade.

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00:11:37,640 –> 00:11:41,040
The other element I believe
is very important to connect everything

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00:11:41,120 –> 00:11:43,960
is the furniture,
the furniture that’s everywhere.

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00:11:56,640 –> 00:12:02,240
We started the project in 2001,
finished in 2009, it stopped, continued,

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00:12:02,960 –> 00:12:05,760
and the construction work ended in 2017.

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00:12:05,840 –> 00:12:09,480
The world has changed a lot
during those 15 or more years.

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00:12:09,560 –> 00:12:11,360
There’s a library here.

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00:12:11,440 –> 00:12:15,440
When the project started,
it was very common, in Brazil at least,

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for libraries to have an area
where they offered free internet.

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00:12:21,560 –> 00:12:23,200
Obviously, when the building was unveiled,

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00:12:23,280 –> 00:12:26,120
this was no longer necessary,
we have internet in our pockets now.

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00:12:26,480 –> 00:12:30,800
A new program which has been creating
beautiful images was introduced

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00:12:30,880 –> 00:12:35,920
called art and technology
in place of the free internet room.

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00:12:36,000 –> 00:12:39,800
Obviously, this building has to be,
before anything else,

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a beautiful container or a continent

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00:12:43,120 –> 00:12:45,600
for content that will vary over time.

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The use of a building
will increasingly change.

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00:12:49,640 –> 00:12:52,200
So basically,
the role of architecture today,

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00:12:52,280 –> 00:12:56,000
which I think was properly done here,

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00:12:56,080 –> 00:12:58,240
is to create an infrastructure,

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00:12:58,560 –> 00:13:03,640
the building becomes like a hardware
for various emerging software.

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00:13:11,560 –> 00:13:12,920
Here in the city center,

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00:13:13,000 –> 00:13:17,040
Gleuson has already talked about
the beauty of having a viewpoint

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00:13:17,120 –> 00:13:19,160
with free public access up there,

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00:13:20,040 –> 00:13:23,800
and it also seemed to us that,
as an enclosed building,

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in an area over constructed,
it would be nice to leave an open floor

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00:13:28,040 –> 00:13:31,480
without windows, as if it were
a kind of garden inside the building.

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00:13:31,560 –> 00:13:34,680
It’s a garden in the metaphorical sense,
it has no vegetation,

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00:13:35,040 –> 00:13:39,920
but it is a completely open floor
and it’s where people come

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00:13:40,360 –> 00:13:43,760
sometimes to rest,
it’s almost like a city marquee,

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00:13:43,840 –> 00:13:47,800
a very urban floor,
a city like floor up here,

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00:13:47,880 –> 00:13:51,520
where people can feel that breeze,
that fresh air, it’s hot in Brazil.

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00:13:51,800 –> 00:13:54,280
It’s where people come to rest,
especially after lunch.

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00:13:59,760 –> 00:14:02,920
We placed these workable furniture here

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00:14:03,200 –> 00:14:07,040
which are those modules
that serve as benches, beds,

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00:14:07,120 –> 00:14:11,360
stage, grandstand,
and every time I come here,

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00:14:11,440 –> 00:14:13,680
they are arranged in a different way.

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00:14:14,480 –> 00:14:17,640
I’ve seen people sleeping
on this furniture.

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00:14:20,040 –> 00:14:23,120
From this floor
we can see the three wings fairly well.

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00:14:23,200 –> 00:14:26,240
It has an inverted beam,
that wall is structural,

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00:14:26,320 –> 00:14:31,360
we can’t knock it down, separating the L
from the third part of the U.

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00:14:32,000 –> 00:14:36,440
And then we took advantage of this beam
on both sides to attach some tables

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00:14:37,360 –> 00:14:40,120
that became the most fought over space,

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00:14:40,200 –> 00:14:43,040
where there are outlets,
where people can work.

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00:14:49,640 –> 00:14:55,040
This is a region
that has several shopping arcades

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00:14:55,120 –> 00:15:00,960
which are these vertical buildings
with stores and other facilities

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00:15:01,040 –> 00:15:05,200
as well as terraces,
outdoor living spaces.

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00:15:05,680 –> 00:15:11,640
The President Arcade is right in front
and it’s known as the reggae arcade.

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00:15:11,720 –> 00:15:18,040
This floor is exactly on the same level
as one of the arcade floors,

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00:15:18,120 –> 00:15:21,720
so there is an outdoor living space
on this side

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00:15:21,800 –> 00:15:24,200
and an outdoor living space
on the other side as well.

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00:15:33,120 –> 00:15:36,920
We’ve made the clear decision
to expose all the facilities.

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00:15:38,360 –> 00:15:42,720
The preexisting building didn’t allow
for a very predictable adjustment,

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00:15:42,800 –> 00:15:47,560
it was already established,
so to avoid a conflict between facilities

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00:15:47,640 –> 00:15:50,880
that shouldn’t be visible, we decided
that everything would be visible,

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which is very good for maintenance.

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RESTAURANT AREA

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00:16:03,320 –> 00:16:06,040
What we are seeing here
is the queue to the restaurant,

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00:16:07,200 –> 00:16:11,440
it’s a super efficient restaurant
that serves many meals.

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00:16:11,520 –> 00:16:13,360
It’s a quite large restaurant,
it isn’t small.

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00:16:13,440 –> 00:16:16,840
It’s proportional
to the importance of the institution

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00:16:17,200 –> 00:16:20,200
but as the prices are very good,
there is a certain subsidy

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00:16:20,280 –> 00:16:23,240
and as the food seems to be pleasing,

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00:16:24,680 –> 00:16:29,240
there is a reasonable,
respectable queue every day.

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00:16:38,600 –> 00:16:43,880
Here is the administration waiting area
which comprises an entire ward

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00:16:44,160 –> 00:16:47,040
on the facade of 24 de Maio street.

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00:16:47,640 –> 00:16:50,280
It’s really nice,
everyone working by the window

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00:16:50,880 –> 00:16:54,080
and it’s a void, that is,
there’s the entrance void.

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00:16:54,160 –> 00:16:56,560
What we are seeing there
is the work of Carmela Gross

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partly covered by the guardrail
and the water tank,

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00:17:00,480 –> 00:17:03,960
there are two water tanks
located right in the middle of the space.

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00:17:04,040 –> 00:17:08,000
It’s curious because
there wasn’t a better place to put it,

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00:17:08,080 –> 00:17:09,120
so it stayed right there.

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00:17:16,440 –> 00:17:20,880
Paulo’s first decisions were to have
a rooftop pool and an underground theater.

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00:17:20,960 –> 00:17:24,760
Those four columns carved down there

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00:17:24,840 –> 00:17:30,920
at an adequate depth allowed us
to excavate below street level

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00:17:31,000 –> 00:17:38,120
to build the theater,
which actually looks quite good

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00:17:38,200 –> 00:17:40,800
with its exit on the ground floor
because it creates autonomy.

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00:17:40,880 –> 00:17:43,600
The theater can operate
up to midnight, 1 AM.

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00:17:44,040 –> 00:17:46,000
A theater and a coffee shop was built.

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00:17:47,320 –> 00:17:48,640
I would like a coffee.

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00:17:55,160 –> 00:17:57,760
I would like… it could be coffee.

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00:18:02,920 –> 00:18:04,520
It has been a while
since I came on a Saturday,

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00:18:04,600 –> 00:18:05,920
Saturdays are busier.

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00:18:08,240 –> 00:18:13,960
I found a very interesting term
used by the Biennale of Architecture

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00:18:14,400 –> 00:18:19,920
about using what the building offers
which is « urban machine. »

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00:18:20,520 –> 00:18:24,600
I think that’s it,
the building is this big machine,

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00:18:24,680 –> 00:18:30,800
a compartment that’s always changing.

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00:18:30,880 –> 00:18:34,280
Although it’s a facility,
a building, an institution,

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00:18:34,360 –> 00:18:39,360
it’s only a medium,
a shelter for the most varied uses

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00:18:39,440 –> 00:18:44,240
and that usage changes throughout the day,
throughout the days of the week

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00:18:44,320 –> 00:18:46,400
and throughout the year as well.

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00:18:56,480 –> 00:19:00,400
What’s really nice to highlight
is that this area is full of arcades,

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00:19:00,760 –> 00:19:05,040
urban passages, covered streets,
passages inside buildings,

245
00:19:05,400 –> 00:19:07,000
and SESC is one of those.

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00:19:07,600 –> 00:19:10,760
You can move from side to side
without any control,

247
00:19:10,840 –> 00:19:12,720
there is no door, there is no security.

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00:19:13,240 –> 00:19:17,440
The building becomes very inviting
to the neighboring population.

249
00:19:18,040 –> 00:19:21,280
The center of São Paulo
is a very democratic place,

250
00:19:21,960 –> 00:19:27,360
it has reasonable urban quality,
it’s where the real city comes to light,

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00:19:27,720 –> 00:19:30,000
the poorest people, the richest people,

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00:19:30,080 –> 00:19:33,800
it’s a plural place and it’s very common
for the poorest people

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00:19:33,880 –> 00:19:36,400
to not feel entitled to enter places,

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00:19:37,120 –> 00:19:39,680
even public places, public institutions,

255
00:19:39,760 –> 00:19:44,280
when the relationship between buildings
and streets is less genuine, less open.

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00:19:44,720 –> 00:19:47,680
At SESC, people come in,
we saw the people upstairs,

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00:19:48,120 –> 00:19:52,480
many people who are simply resting
because they have nowhere to go

258
00:19:52,760 –> 00:19:55,960
and who take advantage
of a building that’s so open

259
00:19:56,040 –> 00:19:59,440
and so inviting
that they end up entering the building.

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00:19:59,840 –> 00:20:04,040
I think this is one of the nicest things
about SESC.